Talk:2020 FA Cup final/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Anarchyte (talk · contribs) 10:57, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'll do this. It might take a little bit longer than my review for the 2016 final. Hope that's not a problem. There also seem to be some comments from a third party on the talk page, many of which look to be valid ideas. Anarchyte (talk) 10:57, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

~~The referee for the final was Anthony Taylor - I agree with Scatalogical Reference (now blocked) that this can be shortened to The referee was Anthony Taylor.~~
Sure. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 15:58, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
~~The FA president - is "The" supposed to be capitalised?~~
No. Fixed. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 15:58, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The lead suffers from the same problem that the 2016 article did. I went back just then and modified that article such that the abbreviations appear in the right order. It would be beneficial if it was done here too.
Done. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:34, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Arsenal

~~started their FA Cup campaign in the third round at home against EFL Championship side Leeds United at their home ground - duplicate home. Also, what does "side" mean?~~
Done, and side is synonymous with team or club. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:34, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
~~started their FA Cup campaign - link FA Cup.~~
Linked specific article. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:34, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
~~with 15 shots - are these shots on target? Might not be worth mentioning if they're off target. Up to you. The source just says "efforts".~~
Yeah, we normally have "shots" and "shots on target" which are a subset (obviously) so "shots" matches "efforts" in that sense. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:34, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
~~four minutes into additional time - is additional time different to stoppage time or injury time?~~
No, it's synonymous, but for the avoidance of doubt I've made it stoppage. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:34, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
~~and his side's - and his team's?~~
See above. Side == team == club here. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:34, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
progression to the FA Cup final - progression might not convey what you want to here. It should be more evident that this is not the team progressing to another stage before the final, but actually going to the final. Consider position in the FA Cup final.
I don't really understand the problem here. It says "progression to" not "progression in". It's self-evident that this means they are going to the final now, no? The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:34, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. I'm fine leaving it as-is because it's the last sentence of the section. If it were any earlier there would probably be ambiguity issues, i.e. they progressed towards the finals but may still need to play a match before they get to the final. Anarchyte (talk) 12:28, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Chelsea

time away from home - late to say "away from home". Consider moving that to the first mention of "away" in #Arsenal, or removing it all together.
Why? It was Chelsea's first away tie so I'm not sure of the problem? The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:34, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I meant move the phrase "away from home" to In the fourth round, Arsenal were drawn against fellow Premier League side Bournemouth away at Dean Court. This way readers with less knowledge would see "away from home" and then "away", rather than "away" a few times and then "away from home". This is probably a non-issue, but I'd like to get your input. Anarchyte (talk) 12:28, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
~~put the visitors ahead - not a fan of "visitors". I understand you're trying to make the article not repeat the team names constantly, but this phrase doesn't really work.~~
If it's good enough for UEFA I think it's good enough for Wikipedia. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:34, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fair shout. Anarchyte (talk) 12:28, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
~~gather his 20 yards - ambiguous "his".~~
I don't think the goalkeeper would fail to gather his own shot? The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:34, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
True. Anarchyte (talk) 12:28, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
~~gave Chelsea the lead deep into first-half stoppage time - not a fan of "deep". The source says 45'+11', so consider gave Chelsea the lead 11 minutes into first-half stoppage time.~~
Sure, done. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:34, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Background

The two finalists shared a London derby rivalry. - the article indicates that it is still ongoing. Consider The two finalists share a [historical/fierce/other related adjective] rivalry. If we're sticking with "London derby", link to London derbies somehow.
I have made it "share" but the specific rivalry is linked, isn't that better than the generic London derbies article? The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:34, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That works. My main concern was that people (like myself) wouldn't know what a London derby rivalry is, but I'm sure that anyone that wants to know can click a couple links and figure it out. Anarchyte (talk) 12:28, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
~~They also held the record for most FA Cup wins with 13 - as of this match or as of 2017?~~
As of this match. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:34, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
~~In the two meetings between the clubs - In the two matches between the clubs.~~
Was avoiding repeat of "match" in the same sentence. Turned second into "game". The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:34, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Chelsea won 2–1 at the Emirates Stadium in December 2019 while the match at Stamford Bridge the following month ended in a 2–2 draw - Chelsea won 2–1 at the Emirates Stadium in December 2019, followed by a 2-2 draw [in January 2020/the following month] at Stamford Bridge.
I don't like that formulation. I prefer the original. It's a bit of personal taste I guess. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:34, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
~~I feel like the The 2020 FA Cup Final was officially named the "Heads Up FA Cup Final [...]" portion should be earlier, perhaps at the start of the section.~~
Horses for courses really. It would unnecessarily split that final para into two short ones. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:34, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Anarchyte cheers, some fixes, some responses above! The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:34, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: I'm gonna put this on a short pause while the recent edits by Defender of correct English are reviewed. I see no point in me leaving comments if the article might be changed by the time you get to them. Anarchyte (talk) 16:17, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, sorry about that, I had a look around and saw some things which suggested a GAN review does not need to disrupt the normal editing process, so I decided to be. I'm all done now anyway, so change away.

@Anarchyte: I wonder, is this how I ping you? (if so refer to above. Also, apologies if I messed up your review, but I realised it would take me a LOT longer to mention edits on the talk page than to just do them) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Defender of correct English (talk • contribs) 16:33, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Defender of correct English: Yes, you use {{ping}}. You need to sign your comments with ~~~~ for it to work, though. You can also indent your messages to allow for easier reading by putting : or * in front of it, adding one to however many the comment before you had. I'll let TRM run through your changes first because I'm not going to be available for some hours, but when they're done I'll resume the review. Anarchyte (talk) 16:59, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Defender of correct English: is this another account of Scatalogical Reference? The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 09:46, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

And another one, Username Policy Trolling? Are you a sockpuppeteer? The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 09:55, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Anarchyte looks like the review needs to start all over again... I've fixed the MOS issues introduced by the above user, but otherwise I don't think any factual errors have been introduced, all the changes appear to have been just abbreviating the prose for personal preference and I don't have the energy or inclination to wade through the swath of changes to determine if each and every one is suitable or otherwise. Thanks for your patience. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 09:48, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Running through everything very quickly to get back to where we were. Anarchyte (talk) 11:02, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

scored his – and Arsenal's – second goal - remove and Arsenal's.

Chelsea

the sides were meeting in the FA Cup for the fourth consecutive season - citation? It's not in 10, unless I'm missing it.

Background

Arsenal lost to Liverpool in a penalty shootout after their match ended 5–5 - where? Chelsea lost at home.
the FA Referees' Committee chairman, said [...] - Is this quote supposed to explain that they didn't want to give a new referee a shot because it wouldn't have been as monumental for them because of the lack of spectators? It took me until late yesterday to come to this realisation, so if that's the case, you may want to explain the relevancy of this a little more.

First half

The match kicked off at 5:30 p.m. - where? 2019 mentions Wembley Stadium in their respective sentence. Also I noticed that these football articles don't include a UTC timestamp. Other sports say things like "begin at 15:00 local time (UTC-2)", though that may be because F1 is a worldwide sport, while the FA Cup only seems to take place in London.
The UTC is mentioned in the match summary, I think the local time is fine in the prose. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 13:00, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
first chance - chance?
Mount crossed the ball from the left but Jorginho's shot was well over Arsenal's crossbar - Mount crossed to Jorginho? Make it a little clearer. Also, maybe mention that Marcos Alonso got in the way?

Anarchyte done all these, cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 13:00, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I'm going to run through the remainder of the article now and hopefully have the review done by the time you're online. Anarchyte (talk) 05:21, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Second half

as he picked up a hamstring injury - before he suffered a hamstring injury
Done. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 06:44, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Chelsea were reduced to ten men - no subs?
No, you can't bring a sub on for when someone gets sent off. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 06:44, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Post-match

by climbing steps to the Royal Box for the presentation - interesting, but it should explain why. Source mentions it's to prevent the spread of COVID.
Done. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 06:44, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
and "showed great character after going behind ... Pulisic going off injured helped them." - consider and "showed great character after going behind", though noted that "Pulisic going off injured helped them". This splits the quote.
Done. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 06:44, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The match was broadcast live - consider appending this after "Aubameyang was named man of the match" at the start.
Done. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 06:44, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Anarchyte done. Anything else? Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 06:44, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, passed. Anarchyte (talk) 07:35, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Anarchyte great, thanks for your patience while the article received the attention of those socks, much appreciated. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 07:48, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: No worries. I've gotten a start on Talk:2021 FA Cup Final/GA1 if you want to have a look at that one. Also, I must say that since reviewing the 2016 article I've been watching some football highlights on YouTube. This clip is spectacular. Anarchyte (talk) 09:04, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]