Talk:2000 Football League First Division play-off final

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2000 Football League First Division play-off final has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
March 9, 2020	Good article nominee	Listed
May 23, 2021	Good topic candidate	Promoted
January 22, 2024	Good topic removal candidate	Demoted

Current status: Good article

Match

The Guardian The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 19:30, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
BBC, BBC ii. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 21:17, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Guardian last competitive match at old Wembley. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 21:21, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Irish Independent. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 21:21, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Form guide. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 21:35, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semis

ITFC: bbc, bbc ii, Guardian. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 21:33, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
BFC: bbc

Aspiring to GA

2005 Football League Cup Final is a nice example. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 21:15, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:2000 Football League First Division play-off Final/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Harrias (talk · contribs) 17:16, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't really mean to review this, but I saw it on your talk page, started reading it, and one thing led to another. I figured I might as well jot my thoughts down. Harrias ^talk 17:16, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Route to the final

A little bit of context about where Division One sits in the English football pyramid system would be beneficial; including where the promotion was to. Not everyone (alright, nearly everyone) understands English football.
Added a bit about the pyramid and where promotion takes one. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:33, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I would prefer sixth to 6th.
Agreed, fixed. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:33, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Could you include in the prose who Barnsley were playing in the semi-final; I would consider adding Bolton and Birmingham to the final league positions table, though that would likely cause more whitespace unless the prose is expanded, so maybe not if it looks awful.
Yes, what an oversight. That's the problem when I don't have a corresponding Barnsley fan to help write this... The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:33, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Match, Background

"This was Ipswich's fourth consecutive appearance in the play-offs.." This was already mentioned in the previous section; it probably fits better here though.
Tweaked. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:33, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Split this first sentence in half, like so: "This was Ipswich's fourth consecutive appearance in the play-offs, and fifth in total. It was the first time they had progressed to the final, having lost in the play-off semifinals for the past three years; to Sheffield United in the 1997 play-offs, Charlton Athletic in the 1998 play-offs, and Bolton Wanderers in the 1999 play-offs."
Tweaked. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:33, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"It was Barnsley's first appearance in the play-offs and their first appearance at Wembley." To avoid the repetition, how about "It was Barnsley's first appearance both in the play-offs, and at Wembley."
Tweaked. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:33, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"perhaps they'll be thinking we're they bogey side" Is this right? Being a quote, I don't know, but presumably he at least meant "perhaps they'll be thinking we're their bogey side"
Tweaked. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:33, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"The play-off final was to be the last.." Unless it changed, rephrase to "The play-off final was the last.." A short sentence giving context to this would be beneficial. (Also, was it really that long ago?! Gosh, I'm old.)
Tweaked. And yes, we're both old... The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:33, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Match, First half

The infobox tells us that it was sunny, but this isn't mentioned in the prose; it would also be nice to have the kick-off time listed here.
This is interesting. I could link the video demonstrating that it was gloriously sunny, but can't find any RS saying similar. I guess either ditch it or add a link to YouTube? The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:33, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"off the bar" find a wikilink for "bar".
Good ask. Hard answer. Done something.... any use? The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:33, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Make sure it is clear which team is being talked about at each stage. For example: "Hignett's 25th minute effort passed narrowly past the outside of the post with Wright beaten, and two minutes later a shot from Matt Holland was blocked for a corner." Without scrolling back and forth, it isn't immediately obvious which teams had each shot here, or indeed that they are for different teams. I grant that it might get a little repetitive, but otherwise it isn't that accessible to a layperson.
Fair. I tried. See what you think. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:33, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"..with Holland and Naylor being saved by Miller." Does this need explicitly explaining? "..with shots from Holland and Naylor being saved by Miller."
Just missing words.. Now added. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:33, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Match, Second half

"..poorly cleared by Keith Brown, only Jermaine Wright to miss the.." Missing a word.
Yep, ditto. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:33, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"..and a Neil Shipperley was saved by Wright.." Missing a word.
Yep, double ditto. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:33, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"..before a second Barnsley was awarded in the 77th minute.." Missing a word.
Yep, triple ditto. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:33, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"..taking the scored to 3–2.." Should be "score", not "scored".
Tsk, removed. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:33, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Not long after Jermaine Wright was substituted off for Fabian Wilnis." Needs a comma after "after".
Done. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:33, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Post-match

The final paragraph needs referencing.
Duh, unbelievable. I've done that now. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:39, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

Ref #13 could do with "cocacolachampionship.org" being replaced with the name.
Tweaked. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:39, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Where is the attendance figure sourced from?
Now added from 11v11.com. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:41, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Duplicate links

Manchester City F.C., Charlton Athletic F.C., Portman Road, Oakwell, Craig Hignett, Darren Barnard, Marcus Stewart, and Neil Shipperley are all linked more than once in the prose.
Dups done. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:44, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Images

File:Richard Naylor Ipswich.jpg is appropriately tagged and captioned. Consider adding alt text.
Done that. Thanks for the reminder. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:45, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Right, that's it from me I think. Don't tell anyone I nabbed the newest GA nom in the list, people get funny about that sort of thing! Harrias ^talk 17:56, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Harrias thanks, and believe me, I ain't tellin'. Cheers, and I'll be right back at you with updates. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:00, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Additional information

Can you see this link? The Times. It has some interesting information about it being the referee's final match, and his fourth play-off final. I think I can download and email you it if you can't view it online.
Similarly, this article, also from the Times provides a bit of context by including the £12 million figure for how much promotion was worth at the time. Harrias ^talk 18:08, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Remarkably I seem to be able to see at least the first of those. I wonder if Dweller knows about this? I had a conversation with them yesterday just to see if there was anything from the Times' archive I could add!! The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:46, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I added the second one but the URL seems to be causing an error with the {{cite web}} template, any advice? The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 19:00, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Harrias, I've done everything I think, but a few changes were relatively significant so please feel free to take you time and re-review whenever you like. I'll be here when you're done. Cheers, appreciate your review very much indeed. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 19:09, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Re-review

I've made a few minor copy edits: feel free to revert anything you're not keen on.

"..which passed narrowly past the outside of the post.." "passed" and "past" seem a bit odd here. I think just "..which passed narrowly outside the post.." would work?
Refs #10 and #12 are the same.

Just those I think, and we're done. If you wanted to take this onto FA at some point in the future, I'd hope a greater variety of sources and opinion on the match, but that's not a problem for GA. Harrias ^talk 20:55, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Harrias these are both done. I very much appreciate your review and advice going forward. I'm not sure I've ever seen one of these get to FA and I don't think there's a heap more that could be added, but cheers. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 20:59, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]