Talk:Thrilla in Manila: Difference between revisions
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{{WikiProject Louisville|class=Start|importance=Mid|attention=yes}} |
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{{WPPhilippines| class=Start | importance=Mid }} |
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==Disappointment== |
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I find it a bit disappointing that for a fight that many consider to be the best boxing match of the past century, very little is written about it. |
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There is a good account of the entire history and build-up of this fight over at www.boxingscene.com. |
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Link is here: http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=2105 |
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With the continuation here: http://www.boxingscene.com/index.php?m=show&id=2086 |
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Perhaps we could find a way to contact the writer and have his work used as a good source for a future revision for the "Thrilla in Manila" entry? <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:167.1.146.100|167.1.146.100]] ([[User talk:167.1.146.100|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/167.1.146.100|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> |
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::If you're writing a proper Wikipedia article, you should be using just the facts, which do not require permission to repeat (just proof that they're facts). If you incorporate opinion from an article, however, that should be indicated as such and properly cited. Go for it! [[Special:Contributions/98.232.58.2|98.232.58.2]] ([[User talk:98.232.58.2|talk]]) 19:21, 16 April 2009 (UTC) |
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== I changed a lot == |
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A changed about the whole article, including the actual fight in the article. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Transkar|Transkar]] ([[User talk:Transkar|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Transkar|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> |
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==Citations Needed== |
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"Ali, however, did not train as hard as he usually did for fights because he thought Frazier was washed up" |
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"He claimed that this was the closest to dying he has ever been" |
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Both of these can be found in Ali's autobiography, or in numerous documentaries made about Ali.-2/5/07 <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:209.244.187.203|209.244.187.203]] ([[User talk:209.244.187.203|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/209.244.187.203|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> |
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== Personal feelings distorting facts == |
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Is it me or is this article Frazier-biased a bit much? |
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You might as well call him a hero. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/65.32.71.149|65.32.71.149]] ([[User talk:65.32.71.149|talk]]) 07:00, 3 April 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned --> |
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Calling this Fraizer-biased is an understatement. |
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ULTRA Frazier-biased!!! In reality, Ali beat the living snot out of Frazier! His face was totally unrecognizable after that fight! |
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:And Frazier beat the snot out of Ali right back. Or why do you think Ali kept saying about the fight "This must be what dying feels like, this is the closest to death I've ever been"? And folks, I'm both a big boxing fan and an Ali fan, and the article is based '''''entirely''''' on solid facts. Also, why does everyone keep saying it's Frazier biased? Essentially what the article says is that Ali barely trained and didn't take the fight seriously while Frazier trained and fought like a madman and Ali still beat him. How exactly is that pro-Frazier? [[User:Wandering Man|Wandering Man]] |
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While everything in this article may be accurate, it may include an excess of facts that portray Fraizer in an admirable light while witholding as much information that may do the same for Ali. |
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If the Frazier bias stems from the cited ESPN article, then that should be said in the text. Much of it seems like personal opinion. The misuse of commas in many of the pro-Frazier sections seems to hint that it was all written by one person (who needs to learn how to punctuate). [[Special:Contributions/67.85.195.225|67.85.195.225]] ([[User talk:67.85.195.225|talk]]) 04:13, 11 December 2007 (UTC) |
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The reality is that, overall, experts view the fighters as about even in points. A number think the fight should have been a draw. Frazier looked terrible but Ali's injuries were internal and he never really recovered from the fight. His fight physician advised Ali that he ought to never fight again, advice which Ali ignored. Source: Documentary, Thrilla in Manila. the.Duke.of.URL |
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:: Not only is the Pre-fight section not even close to NPOV (if only the facts explicitly applicable to this fight were included, this problem would be solved), it's almost entirely uncited. If anyone wishes to keep it the way it is, the LEAST they should do is include strong cites. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/98.232.58.2|98.232.58.2]] ([[User talk:98.232.58.2|talk]]) 18:41, 16 April 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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The.Duke.of.URL - I'm sorry but the Thrilla in Manila documentary is not a legitimate source.I am a huge boxing fan but you need not be one to smell a hatchet job and for the most part it was one.The fight was not a draw and nor should it have been one.Ali was ahead on all judges scorecards and that is a fact,Frazier's corner called it quits which means the fight is over even had Frazier been ahead on the scorecards.As for Ali and Frazier being equal in terms of their accomplishments in the ring this again isn't debatable I'm afraid - Ali and Frazier fought three times,Ali won two of the three bouts.Ali beat George Foreman and Foreman trounced Frazier twice.Ali just has the much better resume which is why he is generally regarded as the greatest heavyweight of all time <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Callingdogsofthunder|Callingdogsofthunder]] ([[User talk:Callingdogsofthunder|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Callingdogsofthunder|contribs]]) 08:17, 20 August 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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Ali's supporters can talk about how he had more wins, a longer career, beat better fighters and whatever else compared to Frazier. |
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But you know what ? |
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In the biggest fight of his career (the 'Fight Of The Century', the first time 2 undefeated heavyweight champions had met in the ring) Ali was beaten up -- and knocked flat on his back -- by Joe Frazier. |
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That's a fact. |
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Under modern scoring Frazier's win would have been bigger as he had 2 10-8 rounds and many present day referees would have stopped it in the 11th. |
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== date == |
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When did the fight take place? The article says "October 1, 10:45 a.m.". I assume this means Manila time (UTC+8). Why does the poster say "September 30"? Does it refer to an American timezone? (19:45 = 7:45 p.m. Eastern Time, 16:45=4.45 p.m Pacific) --[[User:The very model of a minor general|The very model of a minor general]] 18:07, 30 September 2007 (UTC) |
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== Ali photo == |
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The post-retirement photo of Ali seems to really stick out in the article, and has nothing to do with what is being discussed. It should be removed. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:SergeantLuke|SergeantLuke]] ([[User talk:SergeantLuke|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/SergeantLuke|contribs]]) 04:08, 7 June 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== Cataract ?? == |
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I don't believe for 1 second that the WBx would have allowed Frazier to fight with a Cataract !! |
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This is all stuff that came from Joe himself in recent times to make excuses for the result. |
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Can anyone give a contemporary 1975 source for this cataract claim ?? There is also similar BS in the Joe Frazier section, where Joe said he had been partially sighted in his left eye since 1965, all of it nonsense. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/116.25.180.26|116.25.180.26]] ([[User talk:116.25.180.26|talk]]) 07:54, 2 August 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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If Cleveland Williams was permitted to fight Ali in 1966 with a shriveled leg, 10ft of small intestine missing and kidney damage (he'd been shot at point blank range by a cop a year before) then they'd probably let a cataract pass! In any event, only Frazier and his close aides knew about the injury. He didn't have the cataract removed until 1975, and had his final fight with George Foreman wearing contact lenses. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/86.180.188.5|86.180.188.5]] ([[User talk:86.180.188.5|talk]]) 19:13, 17 August 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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When discussing the pre-fight mood, it talks about Al's camp being jovial and one reason listed for this is the relative ease that Ali beat Frazier in their second fight. This statement is absolutely wrong. That second fight was very close and Ali won it by split decision. I personally watched the fight and I thought Frazier won it. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.151.69.224|24.151.69.224]] ([[User talk:24.151.69.224|talk]]) 19:36, 11 September 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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