Talk:The Westing Game

removal of ending

oogady boogady boom shakalaka yella tee-hee! i like big butts and I cannot lie. I have to say that I agree with the removal of the material about the end of the novel. Joyous | Talk 12:18, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

I can revert if you like. I was looking around other book pages and noticed very few other that had brief plot summaries gave a complete explanation of the ending, and in this case, where the plot summary almost entirely consisted of the puzzle solution, I found it inappropriate. But I was making that up from looking at other pages; I didn't look for a plot summary consensus or standard any where.

Rather than just reverting back, actually, I'd feel more comfortable rewriting the plot summary as a much more complete summary which includes the ending at its conclusion. Does that sound right to you? Deborah-jl _Talk 14:43, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

I like that idea. I wonder if there's a stronger "spoiler" warning for situations like this. 71.67.145.143 23:02, 13 September 2007 (UTC)Yes, I actually think there is.71.67.145.143 23:02, 13 September 2007 (UTC) As Kafziel said below, it can spoil the book to know about the puzzle's solution, and I don't want that to happen to anyone. On the other hand, summaries that only hint at the ending don't feel encyclopedic to me. I hesitate to compare book articles to movie articles, but The Sixth Sense does reveal the ending. Joyous | Talk 17:44, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Stronger "spoiler" templates have been suggested but are pretty controversial and new ones don't tend to last very long before being voted for deletion. For some reason, people don't like them.

I know part of the guideline for including spoiler information is how old or how famous the story is. For instance, saying that Romeo and Juliet die at the end isn't necessarily a spoiler. I'd say the Sixth Sense is right up there, too, like revealing that Darth Vader is Luke's father. In my opinion, The Westing Game isn't famous enough to assume that a large percentage of the public is familiar with the outcome. I think there's definitely a way to sum up the story without revealing the solution to the mystery. We're not CliffsNotes, after all. :) Kafziel 17:51, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

My inclination is with Kafziel. There is a {{solution}} warning, but it's not very strong. Especially since many people do still come to The Westing Game unspoiled -- it's still often taught in schools, after all -- and I think that we could do a summation without such spoilage. Something like "Turtle uses not just the obvious clues but the hidden ones to solve the mystery in an unexpected but satisfying fashion." Deborah-jl _Talk 18:36, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

That sounds good to me. Kafziel 18:50, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

I am 100% behind the removal of the ending. There's no need for the entire puzzle solution. A spoiler is a spoiler, but that one ruined the whole book. Kafziel 14:47, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Academic Challenger seems to have re-introduced the spoiler ending, contrary to the tenor of this discussion... More problematically, the spoiler ending isn't in the spoiler section! I'm going to remove the spoiler ending as per the above discussion, but put something a little stronger than Deborah-jl's wording. --Peirigill 01:21, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to undo the edit that added Barney Northrup a second time to the list of characters. That seems to have been an oversight by the anonymous editor. I'm tempted to remove the additional comment spoiling that Sydelle Pulaski was a mistake. That seems like it belongs in the spoiler section, if it belongs here at all. Out of context, it's not meaningful to anyone who hasn't read the book, but at the same time it does spoil one of the mini-mysteries that Raskin teases us readers with.

A better alternative might be to make the entire "Characters" section into a spoiler zone, which gives an analysis of each character. Then you could explain that Sydelle was a habitually overlooked person, so much so that Westing's lawyer made her an heir by mistake, not realizing that she wasn't the true heir, Sybil Pulaski, and that Sydelle decided to fight against the anonymity brought on by her working-class upbringing as the child of immigrants by capitalizing on whatever chance events might bring her attention: her having the only transcript of the will, by dint of her secretarial training; her young, attractive partner; her injury, which she exaggerated by painting her crutches; and her accidental status as a Westing heir itself.

That way, you get the spoilers but also add some context. I'll take a stab at amplifying the character list into a character analysis and see if it improves the article. --Peirigill 21:51, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Is it possible to write the ending here, in the discussion thread? I never finished this darn book.

There should be an ending there. Its an encyclopedia with information for petes sake! I mean all popular books give the details! See Harry Potter. Julz

That's not a good example, Julz. The true ending of the story hasn't yet been published, so the central mystery remains unspoiled. The Harry Potter page doesn't give the details of the individual stories' endings. All it says is "during this period, Harry wrestles with a mystery which climaxes in the days near the end of the school year, which often involves an attempt by Lord Voldemort to regain power." A better comparison would be Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone article, which spoils the plot twist (Quirrell, not Snape, is trying to steal the stone) but doesn't give the details of the puzzles involved (how the kids overcame the magical obstacles guarding the stone, how the Mirror of Erised worked, how Rowling misdirected us with the conversation between Quirrell and Snape, etc.).

If you want to say that Turtle won by discovering that Eastman was Westing in disguise, fine, but does that really add anything encyclopedic? The meat of the story lies in how the characters mature during the course of the game, and Eastman is barely even a character in the book. Explaining the secret behind the paper clues, the queen's sacrifice, the events of the trial, and the crucial secret in the will, seems to go much farther into spoiling the book than the Harry Potter book articles do. That's the real solution. Without that context, knowing the "answer" isn't meaningful. I don't see precedent in the Potter articles for spoiling to that degree.

Wikipedia shouldn't be CliffsNotes. At the same time, I like being able to learn the gist and highlights of films from Wikipedia articles, so I sympathize. Is there a wording you propose that would give the ending without completely spoiling all the details, especially in light of Deborah's and Kafziel's concerns? Peirigill 22:47, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Jake's profession

I see that User:71.225.9.149 took away my description of Jake Wexler as having "significant interests in sports" and replaced it with "[he] is a bookie," spoiling one of the book's reveals. Was I being too clever, or is spoiling Jake's side profession unnecessary? I was trying to avoid the mini-spoilers... --Peirigill 20:42, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

He doesn't have "significant interests in sports". And if you read the character section it gives away the ending, so I don't think you really need to worry about that minispoiler 24.12.12.97 23:32, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Turtle is the main character.

She wins anyway, so she has to be it.

                                        24.47.254.234 22:09, 30 May 2006 (UTC) vcasd31

Ugh,spoilers much!

It's not spoiling as much as you'd think... it's not who won, nor even the exact solution, that matters. It's how the solution was discovered that matters, and so far we've kept that out of the article and even the talk page. Besides, arguing over the main character in The Westing Game is like arguing over who the "main character" is on the TV show Friends... or, perhaps, like arguing that the queen's bishop must be the central piece of the chessboard because it's the one that actually checkmated the king. This is an ensemble book. Peirigill 22:47, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Existence of Tabitha-Ruth Wexler article

If spoilers are to be avoided, should Tabitha-Ruth Wexler even exist? People are going to notice that one of the characters seems to be given more prominence than any other. I'm considering nominating it for deletion (rather than just redirecting back here, so as to eliminate the redirect as well).

In any case, I don't see that the article has very much potential for expansion, considering that this is an ensemble book as stated above. Currently it's just a disjointed list of characteristics, and you would have to give away most of the plot to give it much more substance. –Unint 01:09, 9 January 2007 (UTC) yoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyo I HATE U —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.88.231.116 (talk) 16:57, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

America the Beautiful

Is there a way to work in the significance of the song "America the Beautiful" into the article? I know this kind of delves into the "spoiler" bit discussed earlier, but it is an important part of the story. Trvsdrlng 19:58, 31 August 2007 (UTC)turtle is anoying

Character list

Why don't we make a character list? There are alot of characters, and things about them. Seriously, it could work. I'm watchin' you,mon (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 00:21, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Nice review

I came across a nice, personal-experience-type review of the book here (google HTML version); it may be good to include in the article, and in any case, it may of interest to readers of this talk page. JesseW, the juggling janitor 23:38, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Surely...

Surely we need a detailed info of the synopsis about the book? After all, it is a Newbery. Mydoctor93 (talk) 04:08, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

, I would agree—but it needs to be kept short. I would say 500–600 words at the very most. Mr. Absurd (talk) 19:41, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Detailed scene list (proposed link)

I've been working on a detailed list of all the scenes in the book, including estimates of when they happened, and which of the characters are present. I just (finally) finished and posted it: http://purl.net/net/JesseW/SundryStuff/westing_game_scenes.html . As I made it, I certainly wouldn't put it in the article myself; but I thought it might be of interest to fans of the book, so I wanted to mention it here. Enjoy! JesseW, the juggling janitor 01:36, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Solution/synopsis ratio

I really don't think we need six paragraphs describing the exact details of the solution to the Westing Game, especially when we have only one paragraph of synopsis of the actual story. If no one objects, I'm going to trim down the explanation of the solution, removing extraneous details, and so on. AJD (talk) 18:55, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Full character list added

The character list was limited, so I went ahead and added all the characters. I also trimmed down some of their descriptions. I haven't read the book in years, so I didn't have even a brief sentence for Northrup nor Eastman. Any help? User:elegantelbow 18:54, 23 July 2009