Talk:Robert Falcon Scott

NPOV

Need to just stick to the facts, which are as bad (or good) for Captain Scott as they may be. Way too much advocacy here, for example, so what if Amundsen's eating his dogs would be consistent with modern standards? Needs a rewrite to focus on the facts of Scott, and let the reader decide who was a better explorer.Mtsmallwood (talk) 08:02, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Can this article be saved?

The above comment about the need to focus on facts is well made. Leaving aside for the moment the unbalancing of the article by the overblown "debate" section, there are numerous inaccuracies, omissions, and statements which are only tangentially true, in the early parts of the article. I can't list them all, but here are some examples:-

• Scott was not the "third eldest son", he was third child and eldest son
• He did not join the navy as a midshipman in 1882, aged 13 years. He became a midshipman after passing out from HMS Britannia in 1883, aged 15.
• HMS Boadicea was not the flagship of the Channel Fleet.
• He did not join HMS Majestic until 1897 and was not its "First Lieutenant"
• It is an over-simplification to say he commanded the National Antarctic Expedition "at the request of Sir Clements Markham"
• It didn't take him "eight years" to mount his second expedition
• In relation to the Terra Nova expedition, the statement that "Amundsen sent word to Scott, and hosted a party of Scott's men at his camp in Antarctica, offering them a site next to his as a base" is a distortion.

Some of these may be thought trivial, but surely accuracy is important, even in small matters? I also note that there are hardly any in-text citations before the Debate section, despite the lengthy reading list.

It seems that the various editors have got so involved in the debate about Scott that they have overlooked the importance of the article being a reliable factual account. If it is to have credibility, the earlier sections need to be re-written more accurately, citing sources. As to the Debate section, which as the above comment says, has "way too much analysis", this should be drastically reduced, particularly the part titled "Some grounds for comparison". What is needed here is no more than a (properly referenced) summary of the points of contention. A detailed discussion of these points might be an appropriate subject for a second article: R F Scott: Controversies Brianboulton (talk) 14:55, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

In accordance with the above I am preparing a revision of this article, which I will then send to peer review for general comment. Since an encyclopedia article ought to provide an informed overview of its subject, rather than an exhaustive analysis of one aspect, part of my revising process will involve the removal of almost all of the “Some grounds for comparison” material. This presently runs to more than 2,500 words and completely unbalances the rest. It also contains many statements which are unsupported by source references, and others which I believe are inaccurate or misleading. The section is well-written and, with appropriate attention, could be the basis of the final chapter of a book about Scott or the Terra Nova Expedition, but is out of place as a tail-piece to a short article about his life. If anyone strongly disagrees they will have the opportunity at peer review to argue their case. Brianboulton (talk) 15:55, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

a paradox?

In the article it's stated that Mr.Scott is believed to be the last one to die in the tent. But the footnote given for this sentence cites that it was Mr.Bowers. Which one was the last to die and what is the evidence for it? Does anyone know?

No one can know for sure the order in which the three died. Cherry-Garrard, who was in the party that found the death tent, described the scene in terms which indicated that Scott had died last (Preston, p. 212), and this has generally been accepted as likely. However, Scott's use of "we" in his last diary entry, 29th March 1912, suggests that others were still alive at that late date. Roland Huntford asserts that Bowers "probably" died last, on the basis of a note in Bowers's handwriting found on the back of Scott's letter to Admiral Egerton (Huntford, p. 528) but the question can never finally be resolved. Brianboulton (talk) 11:29, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Removal of POV tag

I am proposing to remove this tag, which relates to a previous version of the article, unless the editor who put it there wishes to justify it in relation to this version. I have notified him/her. Of course, anyone can replace it, if they think fit. Brianboulton (talk) 12:56, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Having had no response, I am now removing the POV tag. As stated, the version of the article to which it related has been superseded. I do not believe there are POV issues in the current version, and none have been flagged during the recent peer review. Brianboulton (talk) 17:28, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

On the deletion for the section "Some ground for a comparison" in Captain Scott's article

I read that section on Scott's article and found that quite informative, particular its more detailed expositions on the background of both Scott's and Amundsen's trips. Not that its current more concise version on Scott's posthumous reputations is not desirable, but is it possible to re-include those bullet points in the earlier version? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ken l lee (talk • contribs) 13:04, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I made it clear on the article's talk page before starting to revise the Scott article that the "Some grounds for comparison" debate would have no major part in my plans. I suggested that the detailed material, if of interest to someone, could be taken out and used as the basis of a separate article entitled "Scott-Amundsen comparison" or some such title. No one has as yet come forward to do this - perhaps you should? However, it would be absolutely inappropriate to re-introduce this material into the the current article, which has just been given Featured Article status.Brianboulton (talk) 13:27, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Famous last words

What, no mention of Captain Oates' last sentence: "I am just going outside and may be some time." What a bloody hero.--andreasegde (talk) 20:59, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

I have put it in. Oates' words summed up the whole journey, and should be included (with a reference as well).--andreasegde (talk) 21:06, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Good idea. The remark, however, can be directly cited to Scott's diary, an existing primary source for this article. Brianboulton (talk) 00:17, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Too much detail

IP editors are adding information to the article, particularly to the Early life and Early Naval career sections. I think a discussion is necessary, to determine how far this process should continue. There is a danger, otherwise, that the article will become bloated with small facts and will lose its character as a general encyclopedia article. There is also the matter that new information may not be covered by the citations in the text, and will therefore require separate citation, or removal. Brianboulton (talk) 17:22, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Modern Reaction

All I can say is give me a leader who gets his men out alive over one who dies valiantly any day! It's good to know that a reverence for gallant incompetence has finally had its day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.120.218.101 (talk) 21:31, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

ROBERT

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