Talk:Money

Template:WP1.0 {{archive box|

• 2002 - June 2006 discussions
• [[Talk:Money/Archive 2 (July 2006 - April 2007 discussions)|July 2006 - Apr!! EARN FROM HOME !! "Genuine and Guaranteed"

Dear Friend: The Internet is full of money-making plans, but none seem to work for us. Every scheme has a problem and requires major investment of money and time. Here is a simple, unique, and genuine plan with a minimal investment and just 2 hours of time per day, which I promise you is not another scam, provided you follow all the instructions in this message SINCERELY AND HONESTLY.

This plan, if implemented properly will work wonders for you and make realize all your dreams within 20-60 days. This really can make you EASY MONEY. You too can be RICH now.

A few weeks back, I was browsing through newsgroup, just like you are now, and came across an article similar to this that said, you could make Lakhs of Rupees within weeks with only an initial investment of Rs. 100/-. So I thought, "OK, right, this must be a scam", but like most of us, I was curious, so I kept reading.

Anyway, it said that you send Rs. 20 to the Main Database Address stated below and to each of the other 4 sub addresses stated in the article. You then delete #1 name and address and move the other four addresses up, that is 4 becomes 3, 3 becomes 2, 2 becomes 1. Now #4 will be blank. Place your own name and address in the bottom of the list at #4, and post the article in at least 300 newsgroups. (There are about a million) No doubt, that was it. So after thinking it over, I thought about trying it. I figured what have I got to lose Rs. 100, right? Then I invested the measly Rs. 100.

Well GUESS WHAT HAPPENED! Within 7 days, I started getting money order.! I was shocked! I figured it would end soon, but the money just kept coming in. In my first week, I made about Rs. 500, which is 5 times the money I invested. By the end of second week, I had made a total over Rs. 8000. In the third week I had over Rs. 72000.00 and it's still growing. This is now my fourth week and I have made a total of just over 2,12,000.00 and it's still coming in rapidly. It's certainly worth Rs. 100. I have spent more than that on the lottery. Let me tell you how this works and most importantly, why it works. Also, make sure you print a copy of this article NOW, so you can get the information off of it as you need it. I promise you that if you follow the directions exactly, then you will start making more money than you thought possible by doing something so easy! SUGGESTION: Read this entire message carefully! (print it out or download it.) Follow the simple directions and watch the money come in! It's easy. It's legal. And, your investment is only Rs. 100 (plus postage). IMPORTANT: This is not a rip-off; it is not indecent; it is not illegal; and it is virtually no risk - it really works!!!! If all of the following instructions are adhered to, you will receive extraordinary dividends. PLEASE NOTE: Please follow these directions EXACTLY, and Rs 100,000 or more can be yours in 20 to 60 days

This program remains successful because of the HONESTY and INTEGRITY of the participants. Please continue it’s success by carefully adhering to the instructions. You will now become part of the Mail Order business. In this business your product is not solid and tangible, it's a service. You are in the business of developing Mailing Lists.

Many large corporations are happy to pay big bucks for quality lists. However, the money made from the mailing lists is secondary to the income, which is made from people like you and me asking to be included in that list. HERE ARE 4 EASY STEPS TO GET STARTED.

STEP 1:

Money Order Rs. 20 each to below five member including main database don't forget to write down your email address in the money order form at space for communication at bottom.

Main Database Address (Don't Delete or Change it)

• MR. GAURAV PRADIP DHAINJE,

PARMAR PARK "J"-001,SECTOR-26,PRADHIKARAN, NIGDI, PUNE-411044 ( MAHARASHTRA)

Sub Addresses:

1) MR. DAVINDER SINGH, 85,RAMPURI, KALKAJI, NEW DELHI- 110019.

2) PUNEET SALUJA, H.NO-31,GALI NO.2B, GANDHI NAGAR, KARNAL-132001 (HRY) .

3) MR. BALJEET GILL, VILL-DANIYALPUR, P.O.-TIKRI, KARNAL-132001 (HRY.)

4) MR. V.BALAJI, NEW NO.44, OLD NO. 21, MAHALAXMI STREET, T.NAGAR, CHENNAI-600017.

STEP 2:

Now go to Sub Addresses and take the #1 name off (delete) the list that you see above, move the other names up (4 becomes 3, 3 becomes 2, 2 becomes 1) and add YOUR Name as number 4 on the list. Try to Remember that you don't change the Main Database Address.

STEP 3:

Now, post your amended article to minimum 300 newsgroups. (There are nearly 25,000 newsgroups (we will provide you 300)) All you need is 300, but remember, the more you post, and the more money you make

STEP 4:

Send a E-mail to-> uyck@rediffmail.com, with the subject "Include Me in Main Database" and with the Description "I have sent to you and to the other 4 up-line members a sum of Rupees 20 each by Money Order." Send this mail only after you have sent postal money order with money to the main member and to the other 4 up-line members.

STEP 5:

You will receive a message from uyck@rediffmail.com immediately, and we will then i) Include you in our Main Database after the confirmation of the payments of all upliners. ii) Send you a list of Newsgroups where you can post the Message, iii) Send you instruction on how to post the Message. iv) Send you details about other data entry, transcription, back-office, free subscription earning programs, online trades, businesses and about other projects on Net and off-line as and when it is available and other details, after making necessary cross-checks and after confirming the receipt of money order from you. If you do not get any reply from us, even after 15 days from the date of sending Money Order, send a mail to uyck@rediffmail.com with the subject 'I have not received confirmation'. We would take necessary actions immediately."

NOW THE QUESTION HOUR:

1) Why should I post to 300 Newsgroups? Is it compulsory?

Out of 300 postings, say you receive only 10% response that is 30 replies (a very low example). So then you make Rs. 600 with your name at #4 on the letter. Now, each of the 30 persons who just sent you Rs. 20.00 each, make the MINIMUM 300 postings, each with your name at #4 and only 10 persons respond to each of the original 10, that is another Rs. 6000 for you Now those 10 each make 300 MINIMUM posts with your name at #3 and only 10 get replies each, It will bring in an additional Rs. 18, 00,000! Now, those 10 persons turn around and post the MINIMUM 300 with your name at #2 and only receive 10% replies each, you will make an additional Rs. 54, 00,000! OK, Imagine in case you post in more than 300 newsgroups and get more than 10% response. Sky is the limit. With an original investment of only Rs. 100/- AMAZING! You can too become a Millionaire.

2) What if the plan stops and no one sends you the money?

A good question. Well, this will never happen. Unemployment increases day-by-day. Inflation increases day-by-day. Prices increase day-by-day. In the same manner people tries to increase their income day-by-day. A survey has revealed that nearly 63% of housewives, 55% of Retired people, 72% of students, and 75% of workers are in search for an extra income, that they can earn at their leisure hours. But, they could not join many of the programs because of its cost. I'm sure that they will certainly join in our program. Soon after joining this program, you will understand that India is still a land of opportunity.

3) What are the benefits I'm getting by joining this program? You get many benefits by joining this program. They are i) You can earn a lot by your down-line members of this program. ii) Your Email Id, Name and Address will be included in the main database maintained by Mr. R.S.GILL) As a member of the main database you will get information's and reports about new jobs and business opportunities on Net and off-line work. This will include new business opportunities in Data Entry, Typing Jobs, Data Transcription, Data Warehousing, Email Processing, Programming, Referral Programs, Money making opportunities, Work from Home Projects and so on. iv) By joining in any of the above said programs (eg., Data Entry), you can make another million. v) You will receive these reports as and when the opportunities are available. And its left up to you to join or not. Some may require investment and some may not.

4) What will happen if anybody alters the Names in the list dishonestly?

Don't worry about that. This is a foolproof plan. We have a specialized system of program for tracking the members, their down-line and the direction in which it moves on. So, it is very easy for us to find out any sudden deviations in it. Further, we have a system of making crosschecks periodically. So any Malpractice's can be found out easily. And again, we have another system to check whether the newly joined member have sent the payment to his/her up-line member.

Any body who tries to do any misrepresentation, malpractices and misconduct will immediately be terminated from the main database and will be added to the offensive database maintained. By the termination from main database, and legal action will be taken against him/her. Some People have tried to put their friends/relatives names on all five thinking that they could get all the money. But it does not work this way. The software is designed in that way. Remember don't loose a million for the sake of just 20 Rupees.

So, don't miss your chance. GO AHEAD AND JOIN NOW and this will really make your dreams come true, but do it FAIRLY and HONESTLY fiat currency as a means of repayment for all debts, public and private.

This paragraph implies that the in the U.S. it is unlawful not to accept fiat currency as a means of repaying private debt. This is not supported by the two references, and I do not believe it to be true unless so ordered by a judge. However, since I am not certain and cannot find any solid evidence one way or the other, I thought it was worthy of discussion.

Criticism

Why there is no Criticism section in this article? It has not been prove scientifically that the way money influences society is positive. Actually it has never worked, but OK I accept that this issue can/must deserve a deep discussion. There are material out there in other Wikipedia articles. Why not to link them? I will do it when I have more time. Ledjorge (talk) 15:06, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Fiscal policy vs monetary policy

The section below discusses monetary policy. However, increasing or lowering government borrowing or spending is fiscal policy not monetary policy. This section actually contradicts the Wikipedia article on monetary policy. Further, government spending or borrowing is a role of the government and not the central bank. The two bullets should be removed.

Governments and central banks have taken both regulatory and free market approaches to monetary policy. Some of the tools used to control the money supply include:

   * changing the interest rate at which the central bank loans money to (or borrows money from) the commercial banks
   * currency purchases or sales
   * increasing or lowering government borrowing
   * increasing or lowering government spending
   * manipulation of exchange rates
   * raising or lowering bank reserve requirements
   * regulation or prohibition of private currencies
   * taxation or tax breaks on imports or exports of capital into a country

In the US, the Federal Reserve is responsible for controlling the money supply, while in the Euro area the respective institution is the European Central Bank. Other central banks with significant impact on global finances are the Bank of Japan, People's Bank of China and the Bank of England. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.128.172.133 (talk) 21:35, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 88.111.129.93, 29 May 2011

I think the 3rd paragraph should be changed to highlight the role of bank money (and, by implication, debt) in the supply of money. My proposed wording is -

"The money supply of a country consists of currency (banknotes and coins) and Commercial bank money (the balance held in checking accounts and savings accounts). Bank money usually forms by far the larger part of the money supply of a country - over 97% in most countries - and is created when banks make loans (see Money creation)."

Notes - The 97% figure appears in numerous UK sources (Positive Money, New Economics Foundation, “The Little Money Book” by David Boyle, and lecture notes from the School of Economic Science (London). The reference to “most countries” comes from a lecture by Prof Werner (University of Southampton)

88.111.129.93 (talk) 19:40, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Done, pretty much. I left out the 97% figure, since I couldn't find a reference for "most countries", but added the requested emphasis. Feezo (send a signal | watch the sky) 16:08, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 88.111.136.253, 10 June 2011

Thank you for the recent changes to this page. Would you please reconsider the further amendment I proposed to go at the end of paragraph 3, viz -

"Bank money accounts for over 97% of money supply (UK), and is created when banks make loans (see Money creation)"

My citation for the 97% is derived from the Bank of Englands statistics http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/mfsd/iadb/NewIntermed.asp Table LPMAUYN gives "M4" as £2,157bn and table LPWBF82 gives "notes and coins" as £59bn. ie currency is 2.7% of total money in the UK

88.111.136.253 (talk) 15:52, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

COMMENT: Although money is indeed created when a bank makes a loan, this sentence suggests, by implication, that the 97% of UK money that isn't notes and coins was created that way. Not necessarily so!

These days, when so much money transfer is electronic, the amount of currency ("notes and coins") needed for society to function, simply becomes less and less over time. This has nothing to do with money creation; the total amount of money could be constant, and currency would still shrink. A salary might be directly deposited in a bank account, the government takes electronic tax payments, electronically withholds taxes from salaries, and even refunds withheld taxes to accounts, electronically. The government, in such cases, is free to simply print fewer notes (and even mint fewer coins) to replace that those that naturally wear out (though this process is more important with banknotes, since the wear-out time for common notes is only 18 months to 3 years or so). That process of moving money from currency to digital doesn't create money, it merely transforms it. So don't use the figures of fraction of money "as currency" to mean anything more than what they directly say.

In addition, the government has ways of actually creating money that don't involve the printing of more notes. In fact, open market operations generally are NOT that crude, and DO result in the creation of money, but it's electronic money. That frees the number of circulating notes to simply represent the needed number of physical transactions involving currency, but for no other purpose. SBHarris 19:48, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

 Not done per Sbharris, the sentence was phrased rather ambiguously too. —James ^{(Talk • Contribs)} • 8:09pm • 10:09, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

The history of money section is written with what appears to be undue influence of the history of commodity money without any reference to debt.

The following quote is from A. Mitchell Innes in the Banking Law Journal, May 1913 called, "What is Money" in regards to the development of money as a "commodity":

"So universal is the belief in these theories among economists that they have grown to be considered almost as axioms which hardly require proof, and nothing is more noticeable in economic works than the scant historical evidence on which they rest, and the absence of critical examination of their worth. Broadly speaking these doctrines may be said to rest on the word of Adam Smith, backed up by a few passages from Homer and Aristotle and the writings of travelers in primitive lands. But modern research in the domain of commercial history and numismatics, and especially recent discoveries in Babylonia, have brought to light a mass of evidence which was not available to the earlier economists, and in the light of which it may be positively stated that none of these theories rest on a solid basis of historical proof—that in fact they are false."

http://www.ces.org.za/docs/what%20is%20money.htm

The records demonstrate that the earliest forms of money is actually debt, and the following is a quote from the same source:

"We are here fortunately on solid historical ground. From the earliest days of which we have historical records, we are in the presence of a law of debt, and when we shall find, as we surely shall, records of ages still earlier than that of the great king Hamurabi, who compiled his code of the laws of Babylonia 2000 years B. C., we shall, I doubt not, still find traces of the same law. The sanctity of an obligation is, indeed, the foundation of all societies not only in all times, but at all stages of civilization; and the idea that to those whom, we are accustomed to call savages, credit is unknown and only barter is used, is without foundation. From the merchant of China to the Redskin of America; from the Arab of the desert to the Hottentot of South Africa or the Maori of New Zealand, debts and credits are equally familiar to all, and the breaking of the pledged word, or the refusal to carry put an obligation is held equally disgraceful." Chdouglas (talk) 16:26, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

"

Aristotle's "good money"

I am requesting that a new section be added (probably as Section 1.2) listing Aristotle's characteristics of what makes a "good money". Besides the characteristics listed below, I've seen other such as easily recognizable, not easily counterfeited, and consistency (ie one unit of money is the same as another unit) which are desirable in "good money".

http://goldnews.bullionvault.com/money_aristotle_050120092

Within such a frame work, Aristotle defined the characteristics of a good form of money – which must be:

• Durable: Money must stand the test of time and the elements. It must not fade, corrode, or change through time;
• Portable: Good money needs to hold a high amount of 'worth' relative to its weight and size;
• Divisible: Money should be relatively easy to separate and re-combine without affecting its fundamental characteristics. An extension of this idea is that the item should be "fungible", defined as "being freely exchangeable or replaceable, in whole or in part, for another of like nature or kind."
• Intrinsically Valuable: This value of money should be independent of any other object and contained in the money itself, starting with rarity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.184.188.254 (talk) 03:56, 30 December 2011 (UTC)