Talk:Liger: Difference between revisions
Content deleted Content added
←Replaced content with 'YER MOM' |
|||
| Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
YER MOM |
|||
{{WikiProject Cats|class=c|importance=mid}} |
|||
{{archive box| |
|||
*[[Talk:Liger/Archive 1| Archive 1]] |
|||
}} |
|||
==Tiglon spelt as Tigon== |
|||
Tiglon is spelt as Tigon in the article, but I am not able to change it, so I'm leaving this message here.[[User:Arthir|rt]] ([[User talk:Arthir|talk]]) 14:01, 22 April 2011 (UTC) |
|||
==OK what size?== |
|||
So there's a paragraph about size, but you would expect it to tell the actual size. --[[User:JeR|JeR]] ([[User talk:JeR|talk]]) 07:07, 12 November 2010 (UTC) |
|||
==photoshop?== |
|||
Is it just me, or is the top picture a glaringly obvious photoshop? The source reads 'own source', and there is evidence of heavyhanded use of the photoshop clone-tool. I don't think this is the best picture to be shown on an article for something that most people assume is a hoax, wouldn't you agree? —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/92.2.103.80|92.2.103.80]] ([[User talk:92.2.103.80|talk]]) 11:59, 10 September 2008 (UTC)<!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
It's not a photoshop as you can see in many youtube videos with the liger basically in the same position. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bbbeto|Bbbeto]] ([[User talk:Bbbeto|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bbbeto|contribs]]) 02:15, 2 November 2008 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
:http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/liger.asp [[Special:Contributions/31.16.112.242|31.16.112.242]] ([[User talk:31.16.112.242|talk]]) 23:21, 16 June 2011 (UTC) |
|||
==Belter?== |
|||
The article starts calling them "Belters" after the intro. Is this intentional? Perhaps the change in terminology could be explained. [[User:Erik Carson|Erik Carson]] ([[User talk:Erik Carson|talk]]) 12:28, 14 February 2008 (UTC) |
|||
== ligers == |
|||
can ligers mate with other liger <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/76.24.76.123|76.24.76.123]] ([[User talk:76.24.76.123|talk]]) 22:20, 24 March 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
Male ligers are always sterile. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bbbeto|Bbbeto]] ([[User talk:Bbbeto|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bbbeto|contribs]]) 22:24, 2 February 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
:Female ligers however can bear offspring. http://www.lairweb.org.nz/tiger/tigons.html [[Special:Contributions/31.16.112.242|31.16.112.242]] ([[User talk:31.16.112.242|talk]]) 23:25, 16 June 2011 (UTC) |
|||
==Superfluous citation needed== |
|||
"Ligers exist only in captivity because the parental species do not normally meet[citation needed]. " How are you supposed to cite that? Tigers are Asian... lions are African. What is there to cite? |
|||
:It was a slightly silly tag, but ideally the article would cite a source that explicitly says they don't meet in the wild, as it does [http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Liger&diff=359641247&oldid=359569763 now]. [[User:Adrian J. Hunter|Adrian '''J.''' Hunter]]<sup>([[User talk:Adrian J. Hunter|talk]]•[[Special:contributions/Adrian J. Hunter|contribs]])</sup> 14:18, 2 May 2010 (UTC) |
|||
:<small>(ps. Please put new comments at the bottom of the page.)</small> |
|||
== Species? No? == |
|||
Would ligers have a species? (I don't know if they can [[species|interbreed and produce fertile offspring]], as goes the scientific definition.) If so, what is it? <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/74.140.218.179|74.140.218.179]] ([[User talk:74.140.218.179|talk]]) 04:17, 8 April 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
No, ligers cannot mate with other ligers. Males are often completely sterile. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/98.233.175.153|98.233.175.153]] ([[User talk:98.233.175.153|talk]]) 18:47, 16 January 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
== What's this noise about Ladybugs? == |
|||
Found this on the page as 2nd part of the opening paragraph: <i>"Ligers eat grapes each and every day to ward off all the killer ladybugs that might attack them if they don't watch out."</i> While that in and of itself is a fairly entertaining bit of nonsense, I've never heard of any poor liger getting brutally eaten to death by ladybird beetles that are probably more prone to go after the bugs living on the poor cat itself. Editing to remove the aforementioned sentence. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/68.98.76.217|68.98.76.217]] ([[User talk:68.98.76.217|talk]]) 04:07, 11 April 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
== please be careful == |
|||
People, please: |
|||
* Watch grammar |
|||
* Watch spelling |
|||
* and be specific |
|||
I made too many changes here |
|||
[[Special:Contributions/71.125.5.51|71.125.5.51]] ([[User talk:71.125.5.51|talk]]) 02:28, 19 April 2008 (UTC) |
|||
==This article contradicts itself== |
|||
The article says males both do and don't reach sexual maturity. This should be cleaned-up; meanwhile the "unstable genes" info, where is it from? <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:TheResearchPersona|TheResearchPersona]] ([[User talk:TheResearchPersona|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheResearchPersona|contribs]]) 09:52, 12 May 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
I've removed the two contradictory statements, which stood out glaringly in the article: "Many male ligers become sexually mature and mate with females." "Male ligers never reach puberty. While they continue to age and grow they do not become sexually mature." Someone's going to have to find a credible source that resolves this contradiction before either one of these comments can stand in the article. [[User:Zadignose|zadignose]] ([[User talk:Zadignose|talk]]) 06:22, 10 June 2008 (UTC) |
|||
==Reference needed for weight/size of Hercules== |
|||
What does it mean by bred for its skill in magic??? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/76.115.189.164|76.115.189.164]] ([[User talk:76.115.189.164|talk]]) 19:55, 1 November 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
I removed the Sierra Zoo reference, as the link was broken, and the site does not presently have any information on Hercules or ligers. [[User:Zadignose|zadignose]] ([[User talk:Zadignose|talk]]) 06:38, 10 June 2008 (UTC) |
|||
That would be a reference to the movie Napoleon Dynamite, in which the title character describes a liger as a cross between a lion and a tiger, bred for its skill in magic. Someonw was having fun with the posting apparently. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/152.131.11.16|152.131.11.16]] ([[User talk:152.131.11.16|talk]]) 23:04, 22 January 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
== Link on page takes you to this page??? == |
|||
Just thought I'd point out, the links to "ti-tigers" and "li-ligers" redirect to this page, so I removed them. They should be added back in when those articles are actually created. [[Special:Contributions/81.158.141.26|81.158.141.26]] ([[User talk:81.158.141.26|talk]]) 19:09, 8 July 2008 (UTC) |
|||
== True Or False == |
|||
Is this real or is it just a made up animal.[[User:KRSTIGER|KRSTIGER]] ([[User talk:KRSTIGER|talk]]) 13:53, 3 September 2008 (UTC) |
|||
Yes, Discovery Channel and Animal Planet have both aired shows about them. This happens in captivity, as in the wild Lion and Tiger territories don't overlap. http://www.bigcatrescue.org/cats/wild/ligers.htm [[User:Munin and hugin|Munin and hugin]] ([[User talk:Munin and hugin|talk]]) 01:12, 15 September 2008 (UTC) |
|||
== Zoids Reference == |
|||
The article mentions Ligers as a Zoid type, but that isn't exactly accurate. While I can't speak for the Japanese, all of the official English material that I've seen has Liger Zoids classified as lion types. As far as I can tell, Liger is just a common name shared by several different Zoid models, not an actual type. --[[User:TwilightDuality|TwilightDuality]] ([[User talk:TwilightDuality|talk]]) 06:10, 1 November 2008 (UTC) |
|||
== speed == |
|||
does this article mention anything about how fast they are?[[User:Ozsmith0|Ozsmith0]] ([[User talk:Ozsmith0|talk]]) 18:32, 16 December 2008 (UTC) |
|||
== Removed from [[WP:Most vandalized pages]] == |
|||
Hi, I've removed Liger from the above page as it's now semi-protected. If vandalism becomes a serious problem after the protection expires, please do not hesitate to re-add it. [[User:Hadrian89|Hadrian89]] ([[User talk:Hadrian89|talk]]) 15:15, 7 February 2009 (UTC) |
|||
== napoleon dynamite == |
|||
why is there no "Pop Culture" napoleon dynamite reference? After all it is his favorite animal. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/173.5.148.143|173.5.148.143]] ([[User talk:173.5.148.143|talk]]) 09:49, 12 February 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
Also there is no reference to being bred for their skills in magic---[[Special:Contributions/209.104.231.194|209.104.231.194]] ([[User talk:209.104.231.194|talk]]) 19:37, 19 October 2009 (UTC) |
|||
*Feel free to add any worthwhile and notable content but be warned if its not of notable content and cannot be verified it will be deleted [[User:ZooPro|ZooPro]] ([[User talk:ZooPro|talk]]) 12:19, 20 October 2009 (UTC) |
|||
== Fertility == |
|||
The fertility section of this article says: |
|||
''The fertility of hybrid big cat females is well-documented across a number of different hybrids. This is in accordance with [[Haldane's rule]]: in hybrids of animals whose sex is determined by [[sex chromosomes]], if one sex is absent, rare or sterile, it is the heterogametic sex (the one with two different sex chromosomes e.g. [[X chromosome|X]] and [[Y chromosome|Y]]).'' |
|||
''According to ''Wild Cats of the World'' (1975) by [[C. A. W. Guggisberg]], ligers and tigons were long thought to be sterile: In 1943, however, a fifteen-year-old hybrid between a lion and an 'Island' tiger was successfully mated with a lion at the [[Tierpark Hellabrunn|Munich Hellabrunn Zoo]]. The female cub, although of delicate health, was raised to adulthood. (source: Guggisberg, C. A. W. "Wild Cats of the World." (1975).)'' |
|||
My question is: what the hell is that first paragraph supposed to mean? I think it means that male ligers are sterile, but female ligers can have children (not with male ligers, of course, but with male lions). If that's what it means, then it should say that, plainly. But would someone confirm that? Also, can female ligers have children with male tigers? Or males of any other species? Maybe nobody knows yet, since they're so rare. - [[User:Shaheenjim|Shaheenjim]] ([[User talk:Shaheenjim|talk]]) 18:50, 18 March 2009 (UTC) |
|||
== lions of India meeting the tigers of India in the wild == |
|||
Do the [[Asiatic Lion|asiatic lions]] ever meet the tigers of india in the wild? Perhaps in the past they did. The wikipedia article on [[Asiatic Lion|asiatic lions]] suggests that the Caspian tigers may have come in contact with lions in the wild.[[User:Pnelnik|Pnelnik]] ([[User talk:Pnelnik|talk]]) 09:43, 19 October 2009 (UTC) |
|||
*It is possible but would have been a very long time ago, am not %100 so i will have a look around and see if i can get some info and sources. Though should prob be listed on the Caspian Tiger or Asiatic Lion talk page instead of here. [[User:ZooPro|ZooPro]] ([[User talk:ZooPro|talk]]) 12:22, 20 October 2009 (UTC) |
|||
No, they would not be naturally attracted to mate with each other. If it ever happened in the wild, it would have been a freak incident. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/98.233.175.153|98.233.175.153]] ([[User talk:98.233.175.153|talk]]) 18:46, 16 January 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
::Who said anything about them mating??????? '''<font color="004730 " face="comic sans ms">[[User:ZooPro|Zoo]]</font><font color="FFD200" face="comic sans ms">[[User talk:ZooPro|Pro]]</font>''' 07:42, 17 January 2010 (UTC) |
|||
While their ranges overlap very little today, due to hunting and habitat destruction, lions and tigers shared a great deal of territory in the past. And I have no clue where to even start tracking down the reference, but quite some time ago, I read an account of an animal that was a dead ringer for a liger being shot in India during the British colonial period, so it may not be out of the question that wild ligers existed. Frankly, this whole article is a mess. For example, the liger is larger than its parents, not because of hybrid vigor (in which case tiglons would also be huge, and they're not) but because in lions, size is controlled by a growth-inhibiting gene transmitted by the female, but not the male, and therefore ligers lack it. I'd also like to see a citation on birth defects in ligers, and what's with "other mutations"? Unfortunately, I don't have time to fix it myself (or even log in). [[Special:Contributions/66.92.68.103|66.92.68.103]] ([[User talk:66.92.68.103|talk]]) 18:51, 29 January 2010 (UTC) |
|||
I will do some more research and add specific information about the birth defects and mutations, also i will add the citations, they can be verified by Big Cat Rescue and National Geographic. Some ligers die very young, because the combined genes cause weaknesses. Ligers sometimes suffer from neurological disorders and 'head-shakes'. If I have time, I will find the mutation article too. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/98.233.175.153|98.233.175.153]] ([[User talk:98.233.175.153|talk]]) 00:31, 5 February 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
While, it is possible that lions and tigers shared territories in India (Gir National Forest), it is still unlikely that they crossed paths because of their different preferences of habitat. |
|||
ligers are mostly found by any different types of cats in a home. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/72.159.154.106|72.159.154.106]] ([[User talk:72.159.154.106|talk]]) 18:39, 22 February 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
== Tigon? == |
|||
This article contains several references to "tigons." The more popularized name for the animal referred to is "tiglon." I was wondering if someone would consider revising these references to indicate as such? (as things stand, the "tigon" links lead to a disambiguation). <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/216.160.131.245|216.160.131.245]] ([[User talk:216.160.131.245|talk]]) 14:37, 16 March 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
:{{Done}} Thanks. There should only have been one link to [[Tiglon]] anyway, per [[WP:LINK]]. [[User:Adrian J. Hunter|Adrian '''J.''' Hunter]]<sup>([[User talk:Adrian J. Hunter|talk]]•[[Special:contributions/Adrian J. Hunter|contribs]])</sup> 14:14, 17 March 2010 (UTC) |
|||
== a list of zoos breeding ligers? by coutries? == |
|||
anywhere available? if i'd like to see one -- want to know nearest zoo that has one or a couple :) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/114.233.134.208|114.233.134.208]] ([[User talk:114.233.134.208|talk]]) 23:26, 25 March 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
== Male lion * ligress == |
|||
The article says that female ligers are fertile. Since male lion * tigress is larger than either parent, it seems like male lion * ligress should also be, and might prove to set a new record for largest cat size. Does anyone know? Since ligers are so rare, maybe nobody knows yet. [[User:Stonemason89|Stonemason89]] ([[User talk:Stonemason89|talk]]) 18:29, 20 July 2010 (UTC) |
|||
: Actually, it looks as if the liger's size record may have been broken already, or at least tied. According to the [[tiglon]] article, extremely rare hybrids between a female [[tiglon]] and a male lion have been produced, and these are known as ''litigons''. The litigon is mentioned as weighing up to 800 lbs, which is larger than many (but not all) of the ligers mentioned in this article. I'm going to add a brief mention of litigons to this article, since they may be as large as, or larger than, ligers on average (no one knows, since they are so very rare). [[User:Stonemason89|Stonemason89]] ([[User talk:Stonemason89|talk]]) 18:34, 20 July 2010 (UTC) |
|||
== Liger births hazardous? == |
|||
The article makes no mention of the truth or falsehood of the assertion that liger births are hazardous for the tigress. Reference 1 (big cat rescue) claims that they are, but the tone of the site suggests a lack of objectivity. Anyone in a position to comment? [[User:Captain Pedant|Captain Pedant]] ([[User talk:Captain Pedant|talk]]) 21:10, 20 July 2010 (UTC) |
|||
: Yikes; I just read that article too, and it's definitely not appropriate for use as a source; the tone of the article practically calls out [[WP: FRINGE|FRINGE]]. I'm going to remove all occurrances of that citation from the article and replace them with CN tags. [[User:Stonemason89|Stonemason89]] ([[User talk:Stonemason89|talk]]) 21:30, 20 July 2010 (UTC) |
|||
::I think the removal of that source was a good call. Do you think the <nowiki>{{cn}}</nowiki> after "the parental species do not overlap naturally in range." is necessary? As noted [[Talk:Liger#Superfluous_citation_needed|above]] it's easy to verify, though I've not found a credible source that states it explicitly. I couldn't find any credible info about liger birth hazards. [[User:Adrian J. Hunter|Adrian '''J.''' Hunter]]<sup>([[User talk:Adrian J. Hunter|talk]]•[[Special:contributions/Adrian J. Hunter|contribs]])</sup> 13:01, 21 July 2010 (UTC) |
|||
:::I don't think so; while there ''are'' lions in India, their range does not overlap with that of the tiger. I'm not sure if this has always been the case, though; the lion's natural range has shrunk greatly in the past millennium or so as a result of human activity. It's possible that sometime in the past, their ranges ''did'' overlap. I'm not sure if anyone knows. However, since the statement in question refers to the present day, and since that fact is easily verifiable, I don't think the cn is needed, so I will remove it. [[User:Stonemason89|Stonemason89]] ([[User talk:Stonemason89|talk]]) 16:26, 22 July 2010 (UTC) |
|||
== Bloemfontein Liger == |
|||
Hi |
|||
I live in Bleomfontein. It is true that there was a liger in our zoo. His name was Tokolos(Its something like devil in the RSA black native culture.) Tokolos was already at the zoo when I could remember my first visit in 1987 aged 4. Don't know how old he was then or when he arrived. I think he died while i was in university that would be 2002-2004. thus he was at least 15 years old but maybe much older. |
|||
At some stage he killed a member of the staff. The guy went in to feed him but didn't section him off first. |
|||
Hope this helps. |
|||
Vian Chinner <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/196.210.227.27|196.210.227.27]] ([[User talk:196.210.227.27|talk]]) 15:33, 10 October 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
== I got Liger semi-protected! == |
|||
Liger (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) |
|||
'''Indefinite Semi-protection''' High level of IP vandalism. The regular rate is nearly every 4th revision getting reverted, but lately it has been even more often. This has been going on for a long time. This article is a very popular target. Please give Liger Indefinite Semi-protection. Gatorgirl7563 (talk) 5:34 pm, Today (UTC−5) |
|||
'''Semi-protected for a period of 1 year.''' After 1 year the page will be automatically unprotected. Courcelles 7:31 pm, Today (UTC−5) |
|||
[[User:Gatorgirl7563|Gatorgirl7563]] ([[User talk:Gatorgirl7563|talk]]) 01:03, 9 November 2010 (UTC) |
|||
== Fattest cat in the world? == |
|||
It is often written, the liger is the biggest cat in the world. However, to my knowledge, there is no scientifc study which proofs that. Ligers usually seem to be quite large, reaching at least the size of siberian Tigers. Some of them are also very heavy. However the weight can not stand for size. Among tigers in India there are sometimes relatively small cattle killers, which weigh more than large game killing tigers. But that is because they are relatively fat, not large! I will make some little changes in this direction in near future.--[[User:Altaileopard|Altaileopard]] ([[User talk:Altaileopard|talk]]) 21:58, 18 December 2010 (UTC) |
|||
== Grammatical Change == |
|||
In the "zoo policies section", the last sentence needs to be edited. It currently reads: "but in captivity tigers have been known to kill lions[8] and vice versa.[9]" It should be changed to "but in captivity tigers and lions have been known to kill each other.[8][9]" This would flow much better. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Gmaestas|Gmaestas]] ([[User talk:Gmaestas|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gmaestas|contribs]]) 02:25, 12 January 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
:{{done}}, thanks. [[User:Adrian J. Hunter|Adrian '''J.''' Hunter]]<sup>([[User talk:Adrian J. Hunter|talk]]•[[Special:contributions/Adrian J. Hunter|contribs]])</sup> 12:05, 12 January 2011 (UTC) |
|||
== Edit request from 24.207.121.5, 16 March 2011 == |
|||
{{Tld|edit semi-protected}} |
|||
<!-- Begin request --> |
|||
<!-- End request --> |
|||
[[Special:Contributions/24.207.121.5|24.207.121.5]] ([[User talk:24.207.121.5|talk]]) 02:11, 16 March 2011 (UTC) |
|||
there a are a few mistakes in the paragraph size and growth |
|||
{{ESp|?}} Please explain exactly what the mistakes are, along with providing any necessary [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] to support changes you think should be made. The best way is usually to say "Please change the the sentence that says, 'AAAAA' to say, 'BBBB'". [[User:Qwyrxian|Qwyrxian]] ([[User talk:Qwyrxian|talk]]) 05:43, 16 March 2011 (UTC) |
|||
== Edit request from 24.207.121.5, 20 March 2011 == |
|||
{{tlf|edit semi-protected}} |
|||
<!-- Begin request --> |
|||
<!-- End request --> |
|||
[[Special:Contributions/24.207.121.5|24.207.121.5]] ([[User talk:24.207.121.5|talk]]) 19:22, 20 March 2011 (UTC)some things are messed up and wrong in the size and growth |
|||
:{{ESp|nfn}} please be more specific. You can remove the "'''tlf|'''" from the template to return your request to the queue. — [[User:Bility|Bility]] ([[User talk:Bility|talk]]) 21:27, 20 March 2011 (UTC) |
|||
Revision as of 18:42, 24 October 2011
YER MOM