Talk:Indian reservation: Difference between revisions
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'''WIKAPEDIA IS GAYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!''' |
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{{WikiProject United States|class=C}} |
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{{NorthAmNative|class=C}} |
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{{WikiProject United States Public Policy| importance= | comprehensiveness= | sourcing= | neutrality= | readability= | formatting = | illustrations = }} |
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==Slanted View== |
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This article needs to be rewritten from a non slanted point of view. It is now popular to consider Indians as a whole who were "enslaved" by Europeans this is not so. The Navahoo stole land from the Hopi. Both the Aztec and Inca were notorious for going to war and taking land from weaker tribes. |
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By using words like "Indians have lived their for thousands of years," it makes it seem that there is ONE Indian tribe and it was living peacefully. In reality there were thousands of tribes and many coluded with Europeans to get other Indian lands |
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[[Special:Contributions/4.142.45.50|4.142.45.50]] ([[User talk:4.142.45.50|talk]]) 17:35, 16 March 2008 (UTC)eric |
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'''Actually, the article doesn't need to be rewriten and says nothing of "enslavement." It is a historical fact that Indian land was forcibly taken from them by European immigrants and their decendants, irrespective of what Indians did to each other before the arrival of Whites.''' |
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:: I removed that section. It doesn't belong in the overview. It uses the passive voice, is ambiguous (forced how? By whom?) and serves to evoke emotion by the statement "had lived there for thousands of years" at the outset (it is otherwise unnecessary to inform the reader at the overview how many tens, or thousands, or even millions of years the Native Americans had been living there). Add to the History section, where it belongs. [[Special:Contributions/64.221.248.17|64.221.248.17]] ([[User talk:64.221.248.17|talk]]) 18:01, 18 June 2008 (UTC) |
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== == |
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This article needs something on the Third World economic and health conditions on most reservations. Also, on the failed attempt (in the 1960s I think) to privatize reservations by subdividing the land and transferring ownership to individuals and the negative impact this had. [[User:Redandblack|Redandblack]] 15:21, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC) |
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The [[Bureau of Indian Affairs]] needs a mention, as does government cheese. :) [[User:Jengod|jengod]] 20:59, Nov 28, 2004 (UTC) |
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== flags == |
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I added the flag to the [[Pine Ridge Indian Reservation]] article. I think it would be a nice touch to do this with other reservations. Some of the flags are truly beautiful. [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] 01:54, 9 December 2005 (UTC) |
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== History == |
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I'm not that familiar with the history of reservations, but I do know that many treaties made before The Indian Act of 1851 included provisions whereby tribes would keep or reserve specific areas within larger areas of land that they ceded to the U.S. This should probably be mentioned as a precedent leading to the 1851 Act. [[User:Bkonrad|older]] ≠ [[User talk:Bkonrad|wiser]] 21:42, 29 March 2006 (UTC) |
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== Worldwide View Header? == |
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What is the point of this header? Of course this doesn't represent a worldwide view, because it's us and Canada with reservations. I'd remove it but I know there'd be some idiotic uproar. [[User:Haverton|Haverton]] 21:35, 10 May 2006 (UTC) |
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:I'm not sure the point of it either. Since the person who put the tag didn't indicate why, I'll [[WP:BB|be bold]] and remove it. [[User:Ashlux|Ash Lux]] 02:09, 22 May 2006 (UTC) |
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==The Rez?== |
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Knowing nothing about American Indian culture, I found this article a reasonable read, but one thing I was left tutting about was the reference to 'the rez' being seen as a racial slur. Why is this so? Based on the information available it seems hypersensitive and irrational as 'the res' (or 'rez' as most Americans would write it) would be merely an abbreviation? [[User:Jachin|Jachin]] 10:38, 3 October 2006 (UTC) |
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:I've never heard anyone argue this either, at least anywhere except this article. I'm adding a request for citation.[[User:Chimakwa|Chimakwa]] 02:34, 31 March 2007 (UTC) |
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Yeah, that stood out for me too. OK, I'm white, but I have worked with Indians (with the Forest Service) for a long time, and have heard both Indians and whites (on rare occasion) use "rez" as short-form for reservation, and it never raised an eyebrow. It's just inoffensive, casual slang, as far as I know. I've never said "rez" myself because it would sound so presumptuous, even though I am on reservations now and then. I mean, who am I kidding? The rez? But I doubt that it's a racist term if you are a non-Indian. |
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Since it is not cited and no one has defended it since October of 06 (as of June 07) I deleted this sentence. |
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16:28, 28 June 2007 (UTC) |
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== Political status == |
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What is the political staus of these reservations? This is not explained in the article. Are they independent countries?, self-governing sovereign entities (something like [[Puerto Rica]])? or what? Are they part of and subject to the laws of the individual US States (in which case what happens when they span State boundaries)? Are their residents US citizens and can they vote? |
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I think the article needs expansion to explain what their status is. [[User:TiffaF|TiffaF]] 06:48, 27 October 2006 (UTC) |
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I agree this needs expanding upon. As far as I understand it, every Indian, including those who reside in reservations, are full citizens of the United States and accordingly can vote. However, they are subject to more restrictions on behaviour than a "normal" citizen. Also, the reservations have a sort of "quasi-sovereignty" whereby they hold jurisidiction over minor offences committed there. But if, for example, someone was murdered on a reservation then the federal authorities would intervene. [[User:81.86.44.208|81.86.44.208]] 16:45, 6 January 2007 (UTC) |
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I think they are also Semi-Tax Exempt, I know for a fact that The Allegany Indian Rez in New York, Salamanca to be precise is Tax Exempt cause when my father died [Who was of the Seneca Indian Nation]in 2003 he willed his house to my older brother and the property taxes alone would have been a few thousand a year, and basically all my brother had to pay was utilities; although he didn't get around The Income Tax, he had to fill out his W-2 like everybody else.[[User:98.2.162.95|98.2.162.95]] 06:51, 2 May 2007 (UTC) |
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One reason for [[Palm Springs, California]] risen to affluent, luxurious status and popular destination for tourists and retires alike, is the real estate companies taken full advantage of tax-exemption of checkboard 1-square mile lands legally belonging to the [[Cahuilla|Agua Caliente band of Cahuilla Indians]]. The total value of such lands has risen astoundingly for the last 70 years after Palm Springs incorporated as a city in 1938, the majority of it on the Indian reservation lands, and this total value of Palm Springs' land within and outside the Indian Reservation was over $500 million dollars from what I heard. The land owners are not Native Americans/Indians, but need to know and adhere to the usual 99-year land allotment leases by the Agua Caliente tribal board and when the 99 years are up, guess who gets back the land ownership? The Agua Caliente Cahuillas will decide who gets and rents (not technically owns) the very piece of land under jurisdiction of them and the U.S. Bureau of Indian Affairs, thus Palm Springs itself alike [[Salamanca, New York]] and probably [[Tulsa, Oklahoma]] are examples of real estate or economic development by non-Indians on Indian reservations. + [[User:Mike D 26|Mike D 26]] ([[User talk:Mike D 26|talk]]) 13:27, 12 May 2009 (UTC) |
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==Indian Gaming== |
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Gambling is only covered in minute detail on Wiki, would anyone else be interested in expanding this area? I have content about how some tribes get rich at the expense of others. Also about how tribe members are being kicked out of the tribe because they can not "prove" their blood lines. I think it would make a good topic. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Gohiking|Gohiking]] ([[User talk:Gohiking|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gohiking|contribs]]) 18:50, 11 December 2006 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned --> |
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==Indian tribes & agriculture == |
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<blockquote>As the tribes were no longer allowed to hunt in their accustomed manner, they were to be taught the rudiments of agriculture in order to sustain themselves on their new lands.</blockquote> |
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I'm pretty darn sure that many or most Native American tribes relocated in the 19th century practiced settled agriculture before any contact with Europeans and certainly by the time of their forced relocation, so I'm taking this out. |
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== Requested move == |
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<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:polltop --> |
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:''The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. '' |
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The result of the proposal was '''no consensus to support move'''. [[User:JPG-GR|JPG-GR]] ([[User talk:JPG-GR|talk]]) 20:05, 7 December 2008 (UTC) |
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I have requested that this page be moved to a less derogatory title. I would have used [[Native American]], but that can apply to any American born within the United States. -[[User:PatPeter|'''Pat''']][[User talk:PatPeter|'''Peter''']] 20:10, 3 December 2008 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose''' Whether it's sensitive or not, "Indian reservation" is by far the most common name and even used by Native Americans. '''<span style="border: 2px Maroon solid;background:#4682B4;font-family: Monotype Corsiva">[[User:TJ Spyke|<font color="Maroon">TJ</font>]] [[User talk:TJ Spyke|<font color="Maroon">Spyke</font>]]</span>''' 22:01, 3 December 2008 (UTC) |
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::Indigenous Americans do not refer to them as Indian reservations, they simply refer to them as reservations. -[[User:PatPeter|'''Pat''']][[User talk:PatPeter|'''Peter''']] 17:27, 4 December 2008 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose''' Very common use. I would not object to "Reservation", but it would be impossible to come up with a qualifier that would work. It's a technical term, so whatever is actually used should be used. [[Special:Contributions/199.125.109.126|199.125.109.126]] ([[User talk:199.125.109.126|talk]]) 01:38, 4 December 2008 (UTC) |
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::I believe I know what you refer to when you say "technical term", but I will ask for a definition, as Westerners once used "Indian" as a technical term for Native Americans for the longest time (mind you some have discarded the term "Native American" for "Indigenous American", the reason I use that term) and now it has become "Indigenous American". "Indian reservation" is not a technical term, it is a derogatory term referring to the land given to Indigenous Americans by the Indian Appropriations Act, derogatory to both Indigenous Americans and real Indians as well. -[[User:PatPeter|'''Pat''']][[User talk:PatPeter|'''Peter''']] 17:27, 4 December 2008 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose'''. The current page title is the actual name for the subject in common use; the proposed move target is the proposer's neologism. Moving would be harmful. <span style="white-space:nowrap">— [[User:Gavia immer|Gavia immer]] ([[User talk:Gavia immer|talk]])</span> 17:35, 4 December 2008 (UTC) |
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::As said, "reservation" is the common use, "Indian reservation" is just to differentiate reservations as land from other definitions. If this title is my neologism, place yourself on the opposite side of this discussion, what would you call this page? -[[User:PatPeter|'''Pat''']][[User talk:PatPeter|'''Peter''']] 19:19, 5 December 2008 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose''' as invented name. [[Native American reservation]] would at least have left us something to discuss; but we cannot choose the names we should like things to have out of thin air. [[User:Pmanderson|Septentrionalis]] <small>[[User talk:Pmanderson|PMAnderson]]</small> 18:24, 4 December 2008 (UTC) |
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::...how is this title out of thin air? "Native American reservation" could apply to anyone born in the Americas or the U.S.A. -[[User:PatPeter|'''Pat''']][[User talk:PatPeter|'''Peter''']] 19:19, 5 December 2008 (UTC) |
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*'''Comment'''. 'Indian' is not derogatroy. It is the preferred term of many (most?) American Indians (e.g. [[Russell Means]]). [[User:Srnec|Srnec]] ([[User talk:Srnec|talk]]) 03:26, 5 December 2008 (UTC) |
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::I disagree. Most Indigenous Americans would at least want to be called Native American. Russell Means obviously uses the term American Indian out of habit and the fact that the term "Native American" did not exist when he started his movement. -[[User:PatPeter|'''Pat''']][[User talk:PatPeter|'''Peter''']] 19:19, 5 December 2008 (UTC) |
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:::[http://www.peaknet.net/~aardvark/means.html That's not what he says]. [[User:Srnec|Srnec]] ([[User talk:Srnec|talk]]) 20:43, 5 December 2008 (UTC) |
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.</div><!-- Template:pollbottom --> |
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== "Sovereignty" == |
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If certain Indian tribes are "sovereign", can they in principle enter into treaties with other sovereign states other than the United States of America? Has it ever occured (e.g. treaty with USA and United Kingdom)? [[Special:Contributions/118.90.20.3|118.90.20.3]] ([[User talk:118.90.20.3|talk]]) 04:53, 4 October 2009 (UTC) |
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:Not in modern times, it is forbidden by treaty, for example with respect to Canada and the United States; however historically this was common as European players in North America competed with each other for Indian allies. [[User:Fred Bauder|Fred]] [[User talk:Fred Bauder|Talk]] 13:34, 25 June 2010 (UTC) |
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::See [[Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples]] adopted by the General Assembly 13 September 2007, also [http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/unpfii/en/about_us.html UN Permanent Forum of Indigenous Peoples]. [[User:Fred Bauder|Fred]] [[User talk:Fred Bauder|Talk]] 18:01, 25 June 2010 (UTC) |
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==Tribal Law and Order Act== |
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A section is needed on the [[Tribal Law and Order Act]] which has now passed the house and will soon be enacted into US law. It expands tribal criminal jurisdiction and reduces dependence on federal prosecutors and law enforcement. [[User:Fred Bauder|Fred]] [[User talk:Fred Bauder|Talk]] 13:34, 25 June 2010 (UTC) |
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==Indian?== |
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Sorry, I'm new to the editing pages, but should it be considered to change the article to Native American Reservation, since Indian Reservation would refer to people from India? I apologize of this is formatted incorrectly and please feel free to tell me how to correctly post suggestions. [[User:Wilderness.sky|Wilderness.sky]] ([[User talk:Wilderness.sky|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Wilderness.sky|contribs]]) 02:57, 19 July 2010 (UTC) |
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:You posted correctly. There was a vote/discussion two years ago (see blueish box above). I don't know whether a new vote should be launched. The only suitable title would be Native American Indian Reservation... which gets kinda long. [[User:Seb az86556|Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556]] <sup>[[User_talk:Seb_az86556|> haneʼ]]</sup> 03:01, 19 July 2010 (UTC) |
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::Please see the US government sources at the bottom of the article; the official term is "Indian reservation". [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 16:07, 21 August 2010 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 22:47, 17 November 2010
WIKAPEDIA IS GAYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!