Template talk:Cite Q

Reminder for title-trans

Just a reminder that as int21h asked on 30 Jan 2022 and I asked on 23 July 2023, it would be nice to be able to use something like literal translation (P2441) so that an article such as d:Q24293504 or d:Q125941907 automatically shows up with the |trans-title= parameter in the en.Wikipedia including the English translation of the title if that is available with P2441, or the equivalent template in ja.Wikipedia shows the Japanese translation in addition to the English original if P2441 is used there (currently Q24293504 using the preferred ranking vs the normal ranking). A temporary workaround is to add |trans-title=Whatever the Translation is as an override in {{cite Q}}. Boud (talk) 22:23, 15 May 2024 (UTC) (use WDP Boud (talk) 17:43, 1 June 2024 (UTC))

I guess for the moment we'll have to stick with the workaround |trans-title=Whatever the Translation is as an override in {{cite Q}} ... Boud (talk) 14:15, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

There was a question from someone other than me concerned that this is not yet implemented, but it's on the To do list, and we're all volunteers. So I guess either someone has to volunteer a proposed edit to the appropriate module, or else be patient and wait for others to propose a viable fix. Boud (talk) 22:16, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

work with template:sfn?

duplicate (closed) discussion at Template talk:Cite Q § work with template:sfn?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 00:10, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Hello: Could someone please modify either template:cite Q or template:sfn so they work properly together by default?

See recent edits to Gwendolyn Grant (activist) for examples of the problem.

Thanks, DavidMCEddy (talk) 21:54, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

This is a perennial topic. Please peruse the archives for more information. – Jonesey95 (talk) 22:30, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I've fixed {{cite Q...}} so all the links now work. However, I'm getting "{{cite journal}}: |author= has generic name (help)" from:

• CNN Newsource (24 February 2021). "Urban League of Greater Kansas City unveils social justice bus". KMIZ. Wikidata Q126365824. {{cite journal}}: |author= has generic name (help)

I believe if I assigned "CNN Newsource" to the right property, this notice would disappear. However, I've so far been unable to find the right property to which to assign it.

Suggestions? Thanks, DavidMCEddy (talk) 23:32, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

User:ActivelyDisinterested said, "CNN News Source is not a valid author name ... . The correct field in this case would be |agency= but [that is not] supported by Wikidata / Cite Q." I've experimented with assigning "CNN Newsource" to different properties, so far without finding one that makes this complaint disappear.

This is a moderately common occurrence, where a news agency disseminates a story without giving a byline, and a news outlet publishes it. In that case, it seems sensible to specify the news agency as the "author" for the purposes of {{sfn|...}} AND keep both the news agency and the outlet in Wikidata in some way.

Suggestions?

Thanks, DavidMCEddy (talk) 23:47, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

The error is triggered by CNN. CNN is not the author (just as Reuters, Associated Press, etc. are not authors). These entities are agencies so |agency= is the correct {{cite news}} parameter. There is a work around if you really, truly, absolutely must use |author= in {{cite q}}: |author=((CNN News Source)). It would be better to cite the source correctly and avoid such work arounds by expanding the {{cite q}} template (|expand=yes) and replacing the {{cite q}} with a corrected form of the expansion. All of these fiddly bits to fix this and fix that and the attendant wasted time in conversation are just not worth the effort.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 00:02, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

If a news agency has disseminated a news story without a byline the are the 'agency' not the 'author'. Rather than misusing the author field you can setup the |ref= field in the cite using {{sfnref}}. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 09:10, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Please see also query at d:Wikidata:Project chat#"agency" property? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:05, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Citing pages and referencing bibliography

I am quite faithful to Sfn, it allows both the possibility of citing specific pages as well as producing a shortened reference section which is linked to the bibliography section, as most editors already know. But with Cite Q the same result is not easily achievable. Citing specific pages generates a whole citation in the references, every time, so when you use several pages from the same book, it ends with a polluted reference section. To combine Sfn with Cite Q demands a measure of improvisation. At least this was the situation some months ago, when I tried for the last time. Now I really wanted to ask if there any better solution for this, or if the technical group supporting Cite Q plans to integrate a shortened citation version within the template. JoaquimCebuano (talk) 06:13, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Not really clear about what you are complaining about. To cite multiple pages from the same source using {{cite q}} and {{sfn}}, place the single {{cite q}} template for that source in your §Bibliography, set |ref= as necessary, and in the article body place appropriately paginated {{sfn}} templates wherever they are needed. Done.

Perhaps I don't understand your complaint. If my reply does not answer, please rephrase (providing real-life examples never hurts).

So far as I know, there is no technical group supporting Cite Q so there is no plan.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 11:43, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, i am not well versed in this technical aspect of Wikipedia. So, indeed, using harvid solves the problem, that was what I needed. Yet, as a said, that still quite a improvisation, given that Sfn doesnt 'recognize' Cite Q, if i am being clear. But anyway, thank you very much for the suggestion of using ref=. JoaquimCebuano (talk) 18:23, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Cite Q has SFN support built in. See for example

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

References

Bibliography

J. Currie Elles (1908), The influence of commerce on civilization: the Joseph Fisher lecture on commerce delivered at the University of Adelaide by J. Currie Elles esq., April 23rd, 1908 (1st ed.), Adelaide: W. K. Thomas & Co., Wikidata Q106369892

Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 18:53, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

The {{sfn}} support is built into Module:Citation/CS1. Use of whole names is not the norm for {{sfn}} which normally renders some number of surnames and a date. This is the WP:CITEVAR complaint because wikdata is (apparently) unable or unwilling to provide surname/given name for authors. Because the norm for {{sfn}} templates is what it is, I suggested using |ref=.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 19:24, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

I believe Trappist means something like this:

Curabitur pretium tincidunt lacus. Nulla gravida orci a odio. Nullam varius, turpis et commodo pharetra, est eros bibendum elit, nec luctus magna felis sollicitudin mauris.

References

Bibliography

J. Currie Elles (1908), The influence of commerce on civilization: the Joseph Fisher lecture on commerce delivered at the University of Adelaide by J. Currie Elles esq., April 23rd, 1908 (1st ed.), Adelaide: W. K. Thomas & Co., Wikidata Q106369892

Does that work for you? Mathglot (talk) 20:02, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

That's what I just said... Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 22:11, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Sort of, or at least, halfway there. The specific point of Trappist's I was referring to, was this one:

Use of whole names is not the norm for {{sfn}} which normally renders some number of surnames and a date.

Indeed; which is why in Trappist's example, it shows the full author name, less usual for {{sfn}} and generally not used that way, except to accommodate {{citeq}}, because of Wikidata's apparent limitation. Adding the proper |ref= tag makes it possible to look like usual sfn behavior, last name only (in series, if more than one), plus year. Mathglot (talk) 22:22, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! i understand it now. JoaquimCebuano (talk) 22:31, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Umm, the example is Editor Headbomb's, not mine. I agreed that it 'worked' but will likely violate WP:CITEVAR unless all references in the article follow the first-last name order. If Editor JoaquimCebuano is accustomed to using {{sfn}} with {{cite book}} and that template uses |first= / |last= parameters then the correct way to tweak {{cite q}} is:

{{cite Q|Q106369892|last=Elles|first=J. Currie|date=1908}}

Elles, J. Currie (1908), The influence of commerce on civilization: the Joseph Fisher lecture on commerce delivered at the University of Adelaide by J. Currie Elles esq., April 23rd, 1908 (1st ed.), Adelaide: W. K. Thomas & Co., Wikidata Q106369892 – using |ref=none to suppress distracting multiple target errors.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 22:46, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

And, including |date=1908 in the {{cite q}} template prevents Module:Footnotes from emitting a false-positive sfn error: no target: ... error message.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 22:58, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Oh, now it works, the problem was that I was using just the last name, as I am used to do with cite book, it needs the whole name of the authors. Sorry for the confusion and thank you! JoaquimCebuano (talk) 22:29, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

@JoaquimCebuano:, either the whole name, or just the last name plus |ref=, as in the shaded example, which I prefer, because it is more consistent with other usage. You may use either one. Mathglot (talk) 22:32, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

"wikdata is (apparently) unable or unwilling to provide surname/given name for authors" What are author given names (P9687) and author last names (P9688), then? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:10, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

It looks like they are Wikidata properties that are not used by this template:

{{cite Q|Q1801903}}

→ Charles Darwin, Esq., F.R.S., F.L.S., & F.G.S.; Alfred Wallace, Esq. (August 1858). "On the Tendency of Species to form Varieties; and on the Perpetuation of Varieties and Species by Natural Means of Selection". Journal of the Proceedings of the Linnean Society. Zoology. 3 (9). Oxford University Press: 45–62. doi:10.1111/J.1096-3642.1858.TB02500.X. ISSN 1945-9475. Wikidata Q1801903.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
What am I missing? Searching for the word "given" on this template's documentation page does not enlighten me. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:14, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

I was addressing the fallacious assertion (which I quoted) that Wikidata is "unable or unwilling" to provide such data. Anyone is at liberty to make use of those properties, both at Wikidata and in this template's code. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:18, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Lua error in Module:Cite_Q at line 190

Hi there, I'm having a Lua error when trying to cite Some New or Otherwise Noteworthy Labiatae and Compositae, and I'm not exactly sure what's gone wrong: Sherff, Earl Edward (1939). "Some New or Otherwise Noteworthy Labiatae and Compositae". Publications of the Field Museum of Natural History, Botanical Series. 17 (6): 577–612. ISSN 0096-2759. Wikidata Q130238673. Does anyone know what the issue might be? I suspect it's an issue with the journal Wikidata item, but when I tried adding a preferred rank for title and removing the author field for the journal, it still brings up an error. --Prosperosity (talk) 21:53, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I confirm the bug: Sherff, Earl Edward (1939). "Some New or Otherwise Noteworthy Labiatae and Compositae". Publications of the Field Museum of Natural History, Botanical Series. 17 (6): 577–612. ISSN 0096-2759. Wikidata Q130238673. gives gave Lua error in Module:Cite_Q at line 190: bad argument #2 to 'max' (number expected, got nil) in big bold red. Line 190 parameter 2 is position in relation to something with series ordinal (P1545). Boud (talk) 22:42, 5 September 2024 (UTC) (update: for me it's fixed now Boud (talk) 22:51, 5 September 2024 (UTC))

 Fixed @Prosperosity: The property series ordinal (P1545) exists (for example) for putting numbers to indicate author order. This is needed if you happen to enter the authors into Wikidata in an order different to the one in which they're listed, or, what's even more commmon, if some authors need to be author name string (P2093) because they're not yet in Wikidata (or have names like Jane Smith or Jose Silva and trying to work out which Wikidata element they are is too much work) and other authors exist in Wikidata, e.g. Decidim, a Technopolitical Network for Participatory Democracy (Q128012134) currently has one Wikidata-unknown author (just a string of characters) and three Wikidata-known authors. In your case, there's only one author, so P1545 isn't really needed, but it can't hurt to put "1" there - which I did. Boud (talk) 22:51, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Interesting that the lack of series ordinal caused the issue when there was only a single author - thanks for that! Prosperosity (talk) 22:55, 5 September 2024 (UTC)