Template:Did you know nominations/Valls Cabinet: Difference between revisions
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:* [[File:Symbol question.svg|16px]] There appears to be a conflict between the hook and the article. The article says "Valls is the first immigrant French prime minister after 1790", but not being versed in French history, I have no idea if that means "first ever", or if there were cabinets of some form before the French Revolution that ''did'' have foreign-born prime ministers. [[User:Iselilja|Iselilja]], could you clarify this for me? [[User:Sven Manguard|<font color="207004"><big>'''S</big>ven <big>M</big>anguard'''</font>]] [[User talk:Sven Manguard|<small><font color="F0A804">'''Wha?'''</font></small>]] 20:16, 13 April 2014 (UTC) |
:* [[File:Symbol question.svg|16px]] There appears to be a conflict between the hook and the article. The article says "Valls is the first immigrant French prime minister after 1790", but not being versed in French history, I have no idea if that means "first ever", or if there were cabinets of some form before the French Revolution that ''did'' have foreign-born prime ministers. [[User:Iselilja|Iselilja]], could you clarify this for me? [[User:Sven Manguard|<font color="207004"><big>'''S</big>ven <big>M</big>anguard'''</font>]] [[User talk:Sven Manguard|<small><font color="F0A804">'''Wha?'''</font></small>]] 20:16, 13 April 2014 (UTC) |
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:Right. I see there are multiple problems with the hook. My source said "first prime minister born abroad"; someone else has added 1790 without giving a source (and changed wording to "first immigrant". However, [http://www.liberation.fr/politiques/2014/04/02/manuel-valls-premier-premier-ministre-a-ne-pas-etre-ne-francais_992541 it turns out] my first source wasn't fully correct in asserting Valls was the first foreign born prime minister. The [[List of Prime Ministers of France|title prime minister]] was introduced in 1958; so before that the head of government had other names, but they may be referred to as prime ministers in English sources. At least one of them was not born as a French citizen: [[Robert Schuman]] (German, due to Lorraine being German area when he grew up). Even after 1958, two other prime ministers have been born abroad, but with French parents so they were French citizens at birth. So, either I have to narrow the hook, to saying something like "first prime minister in the fifth republic who was not born a French citizen" or find another hook. I'll think a little about it; it may not be so easy to find something that is catchy. (And I'll adjust the article of course). Regards, [[User:Iselilja|Iselilja]] ([[User talk:Iselilja|talk]]) 20:51, 13 April 2014 (UTC) |
:Right. I see there are multiple problems with the hook. My source said "first prime minister born abroad"; someone else has added 1790 without giving a source (and changed wording to "first immigrant". However, [http://www.liberation.fr/politiques/2014/04/02/manuel-valls-premier-premier-ministre-a-ne-pas-etre-ne-francais_992541 it turns out] my first source wasn't fully correct in asserting Valls was the first foreign born prime minister. The [[List of Prime Ministers of France|title prime minister]] was introduced in 1958; so before that the head of government had other names, but they may be referred to as prime ministers in English sources. At least one of them was not born as a French citizen: [[Robert Schuman]] (German, due to Lorraine being German area when he grew up). Even after 1958, two other prime ministers have been born abroad, but with French parents so they were French citizens at birth. So, either I have to narrow the hook, to saying something like "first prime minister in the fifth republic who was not born a French citizen" or find another hook. I'll think a little about it; it may not be so easy to find something that is catchy. (And I'll adjust the article of course). Regards, [[User:Iselilja|Iselilja]] ([[User talk:Iselilja|talk]]) 20:51, 13 April 2014 (UTC) |
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:::::I don't think we should be focusing on whether or not someone was born a broad -- I think we should respect how the person wants to be known ''now''. We don't want a rehash of the [[Chelsea Manning]] thing. [[User:EEng|EEng]] ([[User talk:EEng|talk]]) 01:47, 20 April 2014 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 01:47, 20 April 2014
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Valls Cabinet
- ... that the Valls Cabinet is the first French cabinet with a foreign-born prime minister?
Created by Iselilja (talk). Self nominated at 21:52, 7 April 2014 (UTC).
There appears to be a conflict between the hook and the article. The article says "Valls is the first immigrant French prime minister after 1790", but not being versed in French history, I have no idea if that means "first ever", or if there were cabinets of some form before the French Revolution that did have foreign-born prime ministers. Iselilja, could you clarify this for me? Sven Manguard Wha? 20:16, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
- Right. I see there are multiple problems with the hook. My source said "first prime minister born abroad"; someone else has added 1790 without giving a source (and changed wording to "first immigrant". However, it turns out my first source wasn't fully correct in asserting Valls was the first foreign born prime minister. The title prime minister was introduced in 1958; so before that the head of government had other names, but they may be referred to as prime ministers in English sources. At least one of them was not born as a French citizen: Robert Schuman (German, due to Lorraine being German area when he grew up). Even after 1958, two other prime ministers have been born abroad, but with French parents so they were French citizens at birth. So, either I have to narrow the hook, to saying something like "first prime minister in the fifth republic who was not born a French citizen" or find another hook. I'll think a little about it; it may not be so easy to find something that is catchy. (And I'll adjust the article of course). Regards, Iselilja (talk) 20:51, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
- I don't think we should be focusing on whether or not someone was born a broad -- I think we should respect how the person wants to be known now. We don't want a rehash of the Chelsea Manning thing. EEng (talk) 01:47, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
