Talk:Ho Chi Minh

Methinks the opening paragraph needeth cleaning - could his many names not be presented in a slightly more elegant way? elvenscout742 20:30, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Featured on Template:March 2 selected anniversaries (may be in HTML comment)

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Was he born Nguyen Tat Thanh or Nguyen Sinh Cung? Are these the same name? Is there a preferred way of transliterating Vietnamese? Help! Mswake 13:40 Sep 10, 2002 (UTC)
No, they're not the same name. He was orignally named Nguyen Sinh Cung; Nguyen Tat Thanh, Nguyen Ai Quoc, Ly Thuy, and Ho Chi Minh are aliases that he, like any good communist, used. The Vietnamese language uses the Latin alphabet, so there's no need for any system to tranliterate names, all you need is to remove the diacritical marks. 128.195.100.178 02:38, 16 Sep 2003 (UTC)

As you seem to think that you can do it better, let's see you put your actions where your edits are.

This article is very careful to mention (in some detail) the actions of his supporters (calling him "Uncle Ho", mourning him, etc.) and leaves the distinct taste that it is providing only one side of a controversial figure. Where does it provide for the massive criticism Minh has received? You know, Not everybody loved Ho as much as the author of this article wants us to think. Millions of Americans, South Vietnamese, etc. DO regard him as a repressive communist dictator.

South Vietnamese regarding Ho Chi Minh as a repressive dictator.... That's funny considering Ho Chi Minh died in 1969, six years before the NVA conquered the South.

Where will this be mentioned. In the article itself? In a link?

I will not revert the edits you have made YET. I challenge you to balance this thing yourself.

ANTI-COMMUNIST, why don't you get a regular username and sign your postings with ~~~~, so others can follow your posts and know who's talking? It would help a lot. Thanks, Cecropia | Talk 19:39, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)

For the record, I have not been an active editor of this article. Actually, I did not add any of the content that the anon is calling into question (hence my removal of the to 172, from anticommunist heading). If he thinks he sees slanted content in the article, it's best to fix it, as opposed to adding yet more slanted content adapted to his ideological comfort zone. 172 04:26, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Revert 9 Aug 2004

The reason for my recent reversion is explained at User talk:198.26.120.13. Please try to adhere to Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. Cheers, -- Infrogmation 21:03, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

It is true that many South Vietnamese regarded him as a dictator, but many didnt. There were huge supporters of the communists in the South, and that what made the South with American support lost the war. Please remember that fact. Please dont say something like the South Vietnamese hated him, and the North Vietnames loved him, because its not true!. Some liked him and followed his idea, some didnt, that's all

Name

Where did we get the claim that Ho Chi Minh means 'He Who Enlightens'? That isn't accurate. It doesn't really--Bnguyen 10:42, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC) "mean" anything at all, any more than Lyndon Johnson means 'linden tree whose father was named John'. Shorne 03:20, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Ho Chi Minh more accurately means "Ho who enlightens." Since it is an alias, I think Ho must have chosen it for its meaning. Also, Vietnamese names often have clear meaning, and parents who name their kids usually name them in the hope that their children will embody the characteristics described in the names. DHN 07:16, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

While Ho used various pseudonyms, his original name, according to the Vietnamese government was Nguyen Ai Quoc.--Sentience 03:26, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Nguyễn Ái Quốc was most likely a pseudonym. It means "Nguyễn the patriot". The Encyclopedia Britannica said that his original name was Nguyễn Sinh Cung. DHN 03:35, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

photography of Ho Chi Minh

-Ho Chi Minh is a very inspirational leader, noted by some Vietnamese and other Anti-Communist has not a true Nationalist because of his belief in communism.

-Eventhough, his end result was to unite Vietnam, under one government.

-His photographs of him laying in state is very inspirational, and if anyone knows of how the government operates, you can be arrested for taking a photograph. The importance of this is very viable and we here at wikipedia should share this with the the people.

-For Example having a photograph of Lenin or Mao, lying in state would be very inspirational to have here, because they are Icons and the significants to have this leaders photographs shows the humanity and the duration of the life lives on with the connection that tourists, followers or just historians cn view is significant.--Bnguyen 10:42, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Interesting reasons. I'm personally bias against him because I fought for the United States against North Vietnam from 1968-1970--198 05:29, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

It seems inappropriate to have a photo of Ho Chi Minh dead as the leading picture. There is a picture of Lenin dead in his Wikipedia article, however it is not the first picture shown. — J3ff 01:19, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I agree, and feeling bold, I just moved the pictures around. I removed some of the captions to make things fit better, but whoever can improve stuff, feel free ;) Shanes 01:42, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I also agree, and was going to rearrange the images (stacking all three at the top broke the layout on my browser), but Shanes beat me to it. Every biography article I've read here uses a portrait as the first image if one is available, and I don't see why this one should be an exception. —Charles P. ^(Mirv) 01:50, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I agree. Alive should be the leading pic of anyone. In-state should just accompany the 'death/rememberance' section. Niteowlneils 16:50, 10 Feb 2005

Revert 21 March 2005

I reverted User:203.120.68.68 (talk)'s addition of the following text:

The decision to wage this war was not for the people of Vietnam but to satify the greed of his alliances, Soviet and China. Instead of setting peaceful negotiations he stupidly pursuit war which led to more than 3 million death of Vietnamese people. He made Vietnam and center of entertainment for the whole world enjoy watching and reading news of the war for decades.

and

But the real truth has been revealed, he slept with many women and his real offprings are kept highly secret. Nong Duc Manh has been identified his son which came from the period Ho Chi Minh stayed in tribal villige. Discussion of this will lead to jail for sure. --Silas Snider (talk) 04:47, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)

What do you mean by "Instead of setting peaceful negotiations". please state it clearer! Please also show your source of evidence :)

May 2 Quote

• "In (Lenin's Theses on the National and Colonial Questions) there were political terms that were difficult to understand. But by reading them again and again finally I was able to grasp the essential part. What emotion, enthusiasm, enlightenment and confidence they communicated to me! I wept for joy. Sitting by myself in my room, I would shout as if I were addressing large crowds: "Dear martyr compatriots! This is what we need, this is our path to liberation!" Since then (the 1920s) I had entire confidence in Lenin, in the Third International!"

Can we find and attribution for this? The poster may have known, but is too anonymous to have a user page. The only place I could find the quote on line was here: http://www.lcsc.edu/mlevine/PDF/ehesscbd3.PDF. DJ Silverfish 22:12, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

writing style

chaunpq@netscape.net Who first created this article and is the original source file still in the database? The language in this article makes me feel like it's written by someone who is not very good at English or is written by a child.

The text has been changed many, many times since the article was originally created. The simplistic language is a product of the frequent need to find compromise. DJ Silverfish 18:55, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm a Beast???

I'd really like to know what the deal is with the line, "His most famous quote is 'I'm a Beast'." I tried to edit it out, but the line doesn't appear in the source code.... and I'm a tad confused. If anyone could remove it, I'd be quite appreciative.

Requested move

Ho Chi Minh -> Hồ Chí Minh Cultural imperialism to use German and Polish diacritics and not Vietnamese double diacritics. See also Talk:Ho Chi Minh City

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Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~~~~

• Oppose: the diacritics is too clunky and not familiar to most English speakers. Even Ho Chi Minh himself used the non-diacritic version when communicating with English speakers [1] DHN 02:02, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
• Support Diacritics are allowed on Wikipedia, and it's not as if the article is going to change to chinese script or anything. Don't really see a problem with this, a redirect will do. Gryffindor 12:40, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
• Undecided: Can you supply a reliable source indicating that those diacritics are what Ho Chi Minh himself used? Otherwise this is original research. --Bk0 13:13, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

See the linked image in my original vote. DHN 19:31, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

The thing to note on this image is not the typed text but his signature which is presumably the only thing which he wrote. It is comparatively clear and we can see that there definitely is a mark over the o. It is questionable whether there is anything over the i (neither a dot nor a comma), but since the o is clear I think we should support the mark over the i as well. Edinborgarstefan 09:34, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

That's actually a cursive o. DHN 19:53, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

• Oppose En:Wikipedia is supposed to be in English. Neither ồ nor í are English characters. --Henrygb 21:18, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

  Not that I support this proposal necessarily, but your explanation is not a valid justification. There are thousands (perhaps millions) of instances of non-alphabetic characters in the English Wikipedia. Consider all the mathematic and scientific use of Greek letters, for instance, and the aforementioned European diacritics. --Bk0 22:54, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

  My reason is as valid as any. And I am talking about page titles. α redirects to Alpha (letter), as it should. --Henrygb 23:13, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

• Oppose This is an instance of WP:Point. English usage should prevail; when you have convinced the community of English speakers, WP will change. (For what it's worth, I oppose the impoaition of German and Polish spellings too.) Septentrionalis 22:34, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
• Support Edinborgarstefan 09:34, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose -- on the English wikipedia, stick with the spelling most common in English. Jonathunder 14:22, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose: preposterous. CDThieme 17:25, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
• Support. I buy the Polish analogy. Since we have an article at Lech Wałęsa I don't see why we shouldn't have an article at Hồ Chí Minh. - Haukur Þorgeirsson 12:32, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
• Support as it is a personal name, and not one of the types with traditional English forms (classical authors, biblical figures, saints and European royals). Tupsharru 09:52, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose. Although I'm generally very much in favour of using original spelling, these Vietnamese characters show up as squares on my PC (IE 5.50, Windows NT), no matter which encoding or font I choose. I'll change my vote if there's something simple you can do about this. Markussep 11:58, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Discussion

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